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John:
#And Rosta scripsit:
#> {mi djica lo nu I was born rich} invokes an
#> imaginary ('fictional') world in which "da nu I was born rich",
#> and says that I want that the world in which I do the wanting
#> was the world in which "da nu I was born rich".
#
#But under the standard semantics of Lojban events, they exist
#(i.e. da nu broda is true) as long as the obvious presuppositions
#are met: "da nu do jbena ricfu" is true in any world where you exist
#and the notion "born rich" makes any sense at all. To assert that
#an event actually occurs, viz. that you were born rich, we have
#to say "lo nu do jbena ricfu cu fasnu".
1. What, then, is the difference between a nu and a du'u?
2. Why is nu privileged among all other selbri in this way? If you
want to know whether {da gerku} is true of World W, you examine
World W and if you find a portion of spacetime with doghood, then
the sentence is true. Events, like dogs, exist in spacetime. So why
should a nu be not necessarily a fasnu?
We have had exactly this discussion the last time (or last time but
one) it was discussed, and the upshot then, from a combination
of contributions from you and Adam, was (iirc) that nu are fasnu,
but that imaginary events are ka'e nu or nu'o nu. (That upshot
can no longer stand, now that we are distinguishing possible
worlds from imaginary worlds.)
#> So to reiterate, I am happy to accept that 'imaginary' worlds
#> need to be handled differently from 'potential' worlds, but I
#> have no patience with those who want to deny us a distinction
#> among imaginary worlds and the real world.
#
#Explicit means to express such a distinction are problematic, however,
#for the same reason that the explicit "truth" and "falsehood" attitudinals
#are: they are most needed when they can be least believed.
It's true that the very act of marking something as 'true' or 'certain'
serves to cast some doubt on it. But I don't think claims about
whether something exists in spacetime or in the noosphere (or
'platoplasm', as I think you once called it) are similarly problematic.
#> * true of This World
#> * true of some/a certain World but not of This World
#> * true of some/a certain World but not necessarily of This World
#
#After accepting the distinction between the fictional and the potential,
#here you are blurring it again.
Where is the blurring?
#> But it is intrinsic to the nature of lo nu that it is manifest in
#> spacetime, which is why it is necessary to distinguish between
#> actual and imaginary events.
#
#*Potentially* manifest.
See Questions 1-2 above.
--And.
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