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RE: [jboske] Re: [lojban] lo'edu'u



John:
> And Rosta scripsit:
[....]
> > Me & xorxes opine that to determine the truth or falsity of these
> > examples requires a further metaphysical context not inherent in
> > lo'e. For example, if I know only one American girl, or if I am
> > fixated on one in particular, then when I do my squinting, her
> > features may persevere as all other Americans abstract away. And lo,
> > she, lo'e merko, may indeed go out with me (-- sorry Nick! 
> > nobody can compete with my sexual magnetism...) 
> 
> That, however, makes hash of the in-mind vs. actual distinction present
> in lo'e vs. le'e.  Talking about lo'e merko binds you to the truth
> as much as talking of lo merko does (of course, you can be in error,
> or lying, or ...) 

I still think that you & others seem not to have properly understood
me yet.

Yes, lo'e binds you to the truth, but is an objective truth or a
subjective truth? As an analogy, can I truthfully say "the lorry
dwindled into the distance"? Yes, if truth can be subjective. No
if truth is objective and unaltered by the vantage point of the
observer. I think that Lojban should not adjudicate on matters of
epistemology. If you disagree then at least we should broaden
things out and say that some UI or other can be used to indicate
whether subjective or objective truth is intended. 

No hash is made of the le'e/lo'e distinction by allowing for
subjectivity (= local squinting). For one thing, allowing subjectivity 
does not disallow objectivity, and we seem to be in agreement that 
le'e/lo'e distinction is clear on an objective (= global squinting) 
view. Even on the subjective/local squinting view, if I am fixated
on one American girl in particular, and subjectively end up seeing
something heavily coloured by her when I squint away all intermerko
differences, then there is no basis for arguing that I am talking
about le'e merko, since the input to my squinting is lo'i merko,
not le'i merko.

--And.