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On Sun, Nov 10, 2002 at 01:19:58PM -0000, And Rosta wrote:
[...]
> (Had they been importing, they would have meant "There are at
> least y broda, and x of them per y broda are brode".) The
> rationale for this is to make DeMorgan work more elegantly.
> Cardinals (other than no) are importing. {su'o, pa, re} are
> cardinals. {so'e, ro, me'i ro} are fractionals. {no} neutralizes
> the cardinal/fractional distinction (and is by deduction
> nonimporting).
I object to calling "ro" a fractional. I don't think it is anything
like a fraction---it certainly isn't the same as 100/100 or 1/1.
> I think this gives the scheme Jordan, Jorge et al want: A-E-I+O+.
>
> A- = ro (nonimp because fractional)
> E- = no
> I+ = su'o (imp because cardinal)
> O+ = su'o+na (but NOT me'iro)
Yeah---I'm not sure what that me'iro stuff is about. Not all is
su'o+naku or naku+ro. Maybe xorxes can explain that.
> (In what I have said here, I am contradicting what I said yesterday,
> because I had been making the mistake of thinking of su'o as a
> fractional (i.e. as "some of" rather than as "one or more of").
> (Partly this is because I don't really think of cardinals as
> quantifiers.))
Can't they be thought of as a bunch of existential quantifiers?
ci da ==
ExEy(y != x & Ez(z != y & z != x & ....)
Maybe there's a better way though?
> Let me move on to a bit that we might not agree on:
[...]
> Define two cmavo:
>
> fi'au = non-importing PER (< fi'u)
> fu'oi = importing PER (blend of fi'au + su'o)
>
> these have a grammar similar to fi'u and pi (e.g. {fi'au so'e},
> {fu'oi so'e}, {fi'au ro}, {fu'oi ro}.
>
> When functioning as fractional quantifiers, bare ro & so'e are
> technically ambiguous between fi'au and fu'oi. The ambiguity
> should not matter to usage, because there is no good reason
> to want to make a claim where it does matter.
First, as I said above, I don't consider {ro} to be a fractional
quantifier. There's certainly nothing in the way of us getting
importing {ro} when we need it without defining new cmavo (which
no one will *ever* use) or any cmavo hijacking (which is quite
mabla): {rosu'o}. (Btw, does anyone know what the naku rules for
{rosu'o} would be?)
Anyway, I've not been dealing with the import of so'o, so'e, etc,
and I still think they are off topic. so'o needs a bit of other
foo before we debate a minor issue like import---we don't have rules
about naku boundaries for them, etc. So my suggestion is that the
consideration you're giving to consider 'fractional quantifiers'
as a general class is a red herring.
--
Jordan DeLong - fracture@hidden.email
lu zo'o loi censa bakni cu terzba le zaltapla poi xagrai li'u
sei la mark. tuen. cusku
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