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Re: [jboske] Llamban (was Re: Lo'e le'e


la pycyn cusku di'e

[...]

From this, we generalize to the {kair} predicates:
Axiom Schema 3:
tu'o ka ce'u goi ko'a zo'u
           [ko'a broda]
cu du tu'o ka ce'u goi ko'a zo'u
     [kairbroda tu'o ka ce'u du ko'a kei]
(where [ko'a broda] and [kairbroda ...] put ko'a in any place in broda and
the property of being ko'a in the same place, all otehr places being the
same)
and
Axiom Schema 4:
[broda lo'e brode]
= [kairbroda tu'o ka ce'u broda]


Correct.


Whatever it is it is to explain, it
pretty clearly fails to explain the use of {lo'e}, since AS4 is generally
false in Lojban,


I'm afraid you lost me with "AS4". Is it explainable to a
layperson?
Well, is it then at least coherent in Llamban. Not obviously. We are told 
that  {lo'e broda} = {lo broda} in some context.


No. All I said was that {tu'o ka ce'u du lo'e broda =
tu'o ka ce'u du lo broda}, which does not in any way permit
to conclude {lo'e broda} = {lo broda}.


Presumably, the context
involved is {tu'u ka ce'u du...}, that is, the property of being identical
with lo'e broda is the same as the property of being identical with lo broda 
(some broda, that is).  But, if the proeprties are the same, then what has
those properties must be the same (whether we take properties in intension or 
extension)


Yes.


and, since each of these critters obviously has the property of
being identical with what it is,


What do you mean by "each of these critters"? The two expressions?
Neither of the two expressions has the property in question.


they are identical with one another, though
a single thing being identical with a range of things is a bit problematic). 

The two expressions are not identical. The underlying set is
the same for both expressions.

[...]

But, since the system, even
within Llamban, leads inevitably to a false result, it is not even coherent
in that langauge.


It leads to a false result only if you apply {lo'e broda} =
{lo broda}, which is false and not entailed by my definitions.

mu'o mi'e xorxes


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