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Because they are as relative to subject as other adjectives: compare a green house to green grass as to greenness. Color words also don't have conditions attached in Lojban (you could add them in Xorban, of course).On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 10:34 AM, John E Clifford <kali9putra@hidden.email> wrote:Because a black horse is not just black and a horse (we won't go the whole Kung Sun Lung bit here) any more than a small star is both small and a star.
Why wouldn't the simple colors be handled as the intersective adjectives that they seem to be?
Nice joke, but without the limitors the results is illogical. If it is both small and a star, then it is small, which it isn't. If you save that by adding the condition, then the whole is redundant, so prolix and against another goal of the reconstruction. Incidentally, black horses (or at least black cats) aren't even black (it's a hard color to get in living creatures, who tend to use melanin which -- despite its name -- is a brown pigment)As far as nonintersectives like "small", they can be generally handled intersectively as well, because it's usually obvious what standard with respect to which something is said to be small. e.g.:
la tfa je lnta trca.
"That's a small (lit: unmassive) star."
... obviously means that's the star has a small mass by the standard of stars, not by the standard of cats or something. If you wish to be pedantic,
la tfa je li trci lntaki trca.
"That's starwise a small star."
"That's a star small as far as stars go."
... in which the speaker is emphasizing that the star is unmassive only by star standards, not by our standards. If you compare apples and oranges, then the x2 of linto becomes necessary:
la je tfa mlta li grki tljaki.
"That cat is heavy by dog standards."
... which probably means that someone should put the cat on a diet. All of this stuff comes from Lojban, which seems to me a bit that got done right.
Also, there are increasing complicated cases, where conjunction just won't work: pretty little girls school, to take a classic. Or cannibal fish. At some point you have to allow modifier-modified pairs and the easiest place to start is at the beginning.
16.1) melbi cmalu nixli ckule ((pretty type-of little) type-of girl) type-of school school for girls who are beautifully small
16.2) melbi je cmalu nixli ckule ((pretty and little) type-of girl) type-of school school for girls who are beautiful and small
16.3) melbi bo cmalu je nixli ckule ((pretty type-of little) and girl) type-of school school for girls and for beautifully small things
16.4) ke melbi cmalu nixli ke'e je ckule ((pretty type-of little) type-of girl) and school thing which is a school and a beautifully small girl
16.5) melbi je cmalu je nixli ckule ((pretty and little) and girl) type-of school school for things which are beautiful, small, and girls Note: same as 16.21
16.6) melbi bo cmalu je nixli je ckule ((pretty type-of little) and girl) and school thing which is beautifully small, a school, and a girl Note: same as 16.14
16.7) ke melbi je cmalu nixli ke'e je ckule ((pretty and little) type-of girl) and school thing which is a school and a girl who is both beautiful and small
16.8) melbi je cmalu je nixli je ckule ((pretty and little) and girl) and school thing which is beautiful, small, a girl, and a school
16.9) melbi cmalu nixli bo ckule (pretty type-of little) type-of (girl type-of school) girls' school which is beautifully small
16.10) melbi je cmalu nixli bo ckule (pretty and little) type-of (girl type-of school) girls' school which is beautiful and small
16.11) melbi cmalu nixli je ckule (pretty type-of little) type-of (girl and school) something which is a girl and a school which is beautifully small
16.12) melbi bo cmalu je nixli bo ckule (pretty type-of little) and (girl type-of school) something which is beautifully small and a girls' school
16.13) melbi je cmalu nixli je ckule (pretty and little) type-of (girl and school) a pretty and little type of thing which is both a girl and a school
16.14) melbi bo cmalu je nixli jebo ckule (pretty type-of little) and (girl and school) thing which is beautifully small, a school, and a girl Note: same as 16.6
16.15) melbi jebo cmalu je nixli bo ckule (pretty and little) and (girl type-of school) thing which is beautiful and small and a girl's school Note: same as 16.30
16.16) melbi jebo cmalu je nixli jebo ckule (pretty and little) and (girl and school) thing which is beautiful, small, a girl, and a school
16.17) melbi cmalu bo nixli ckule (pretty type-of (little type-of girl)) type-of school school for beautiful girls who are small
16.18) melbi cmalu je nixli ckule (pretty type-of (little and girl)) type-of school school for beautiful things which are small and are girls
16.19) melbi je cmalu bo nixli ckule (pretty and (little type-of girl)) type-of school school for things which are beautiful and are small girls
16.20) ke melbi cmalu bo nixli ke'e je ckule melbi bo cmalu bo nixli je ckule (pretty type-of (little type-of girl)) and school thing which is a school and a small girl who is beautiful
16.21) melbi je cmalu jebo nixli ckule (pretty and (little and girl)) type-of school school for things which are beautiful, small, and girls Note: same as 16.5
16.22) melbi je cmalu bo nixli je ckule (pretty and (little type-of girl)) and school thing which is beautiful, a small girl, and a school Note: same as 16.38
16.23) ke melbi cmalu je nixli ke'e je ckule (pretty type-of (little and girl)) and school thing which is beautifully small, a beautiful girl, and a school
16.24) melbi je cmalu jebo nixli je ckule (pretty and (little and girl)) and school thing which is beautiful, small, a girl, and a school
16.25) melbi cmalu bo nixli bo ckule melbi ke cmalu ke nixli ckule [ke'e] [ke'e] pretty type-of (little type-of (girl type-of school)) small school for girls which is beautiful
16.26) melbi ke cmalu nixli je ckule [ke'e] pretty type-of (little type-of (girl and school)) small thing, both a girl and a school, which is beautiful
16.27) melbi cmalu je nixli bo ckule pretty type-of (little and (girl type-of school)) thing which is beautifully small and a girls' school that is beautiful
16.28) melbi je cmalu bo nixli bo ckule melbi je ke cmalu nixli bo ckule [ke'e] melbi je ke cmalu ke nixli ckule [ke'e] [ke'e] pretty and (little type-of (girl type-of school)) thing which is beautiful and a small type of girls' school
16.29) melbi cmalu je nixli jebo ckule melbi cmalu je ke nixli je ckule [ke'e] pretty type-of (little and (girl and school)) thing which is beautifully small, a beautiful girl, and a beautiful school Note: same as 16.37
16.30) melbi je cmalu jebo nixli bo ckule melbi je ke cmalu je nixli bo ckule [ke'e] pretty and (little and (girl type-of school)) thing which is beautiful, small and a girls' school Note: same as 16.15
16.31) melbi je ke cmalu nixli je ckule [ke'e] pretty and (little type-of (girl and school)) beautiful thing which is a small girl and a small school
16.32) melbi jebo cmalu jebo nixli jebo ckule pretty and (little and (girl and school)) thing which is beautiful, small, a girl, and a school
16.33) melbi ke cmalu nixli ckule [ke'e] pretty type-of ((little type-of girl) type-of school) beautiful school for small girls
16.34) melbi ke cmalu je nixli ckule [ke'e] pretty type-of ((little and girl) type-of school beautiful school for things which are small and are girls
16.35) melbi ke cmalu bo nixli je ckule [ke'e] pretty type-of ((little type-of girl) and school) beautiful thing which is a small girl and a school
16.36) melbi je ke cmalu nixli ckule [ke'e] pretty and ((little type-of girl) type-of school) thing which is beautiful and a school for small girls
16.37) melbi cmalu je nixli je ckule pretty type-of ((little and girl) and school) thing which is beautifully small, a beautiful girl, and a beautiful school Note: same as 16.29
16.38) melbi je ke cmalu bo nixli je ckule [ke'e] pretty and ((little type-of girl) and school) thing which is beautiful, a small girl and a school Note: same as 16.22
16.39) melbi je ke cmalu je nixli ckule [ke'e] pretty and ((little and girl) type-of school) thing which is beautiful and is a small school and a girls' school
16.40) melbi je ke cmalu je nixli je ckule [ke'e] pretty and ((little and girl) and school) thing which is beautiful, small, a girl, and a school