Re: [engelang] Xorban Development - engelang messages

On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 7:42 PM, Jorge Llambías <jjllambias@hidden.email> wrote:

On Tue, Aug 21, 2012 at 11:31 PM, Mike S. <maikxlx@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> At any rate, Xorban will eventually have to allow adverbial expressions, including whose with arguments. Morneau's system is just one possible rationalization of a universal need.

The first step is to see how they are dealt with in predicate logic.
If we use events, then for example:

"The horse runs fast."
The x Horse(x): Ey Event(y): Runs(x,y) & Fast(y)
la xrma se fwe je bjrafe stre

(With fwe: "e is an event") Or perhaps even:

The x Horse(x): The y Something(y): Runs(x,y) & Fast(y)
la xrma je bjrafe stre

with an implicit "le sme" binding for unbound "e".

I am not 100% certain of the reading that you intended for "The horse runs fast", but I don't think that these constructions mean what you want them to mean. Events obviously can't be fast in the same sense that horses can, so I think that "la xrma le sme je bjrafe stre" = "The horse, the event in which it runs is fast" can sensibly mean only one of two things:

1. The event in which the horse runs occurs after a short amount of time.
2. The event in which the horse runs occurs in a short amount of time.

What I really think we want is

3. The event occurs in which the horse runs and in which the horse is fast.

la xrma le sme je bjrafe strafe

... or,

la xrma se sme je bjrafe strafe

... the difference probably being something like "The horse is running fast" vs. "The horse has (on at least one occasion) run fast".

Since "je" is a purely logical conjunction, the order of "bjrafe" and "strafe" does not matter, which is probably what we want.

la xrma le sme je strafe bjrafe
"The horse is swiftly running."

This is probably going to be common enough of a construction that we'll want a shortcut. I propose a new binary, "joy":

la xrma joy bjra stra
"A/the horse in the same event runs and is fast."
"The horse runs fast."

... in which some variable is bound and understood to be f-suffixed to "bjra" and "stra". This variable could be anonymous, or better yet, assign it as "oy" to match "joy" (understood as bound as "loy smoy" until assigned again) for possible use elsewhere. (The passive-forming variable can be reassigned "aw". "la nnla tvlawka" = "the man is talked to").

There is a question regarding the nesting of "joy"s. Should we keep repeating "joy" or is "je" sufficient for nested subsentences. In other words the question is of rendering "The horse runs fast and happily" as:

la xrma joy bjra joy stra glka

... versus

la xrma joy bjra je stra glka

I prefer the sound of the second.

>> > It's a promising start. I hope that you will continue to develop it.
>>
>> Only if there are more questions. :)
>
> You have these. Other questions are ready to be loaded on trucks and sent your way. :)

Keep them coming, and tell me what you think of the suggestions above.