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On Jan 29, 2006, at 4:19 PM, Jim Henry wrote:
On 1/28/06, Rex May <rmay@hidden.email> wrote:Latest try: gataympa, tri balu dwel pisa dom hu dan gasa bawmgu. beo pa bi pamo balu, pami balu, kay pisa balubin. do tota dey, pamizo tayarfa tri diwalisi dalya hu ben to"do tu dey" now, right?
Right.
Also I note that "dalya" isn't in the glossary yet. The use of this quantifier suffix -si should be documented in the grammar (maybe it already is, but I don't recall reading about it until now).
dalya is in the glossary but not yet uploaded. Right about -si. I'm now thinking about redoing the grammar from scratch.
balu famli. kaybya doke beo komtray deo, deo tro kyar! cofa, beo cwa gi pawdja hu dan bawmgu.It would help beginners if you noted both in the glossary entries for "beo" etc. and on the alphabet page how letter-names are used as pronouns. I think it is mentioned just once in the grammar, with few examples given.fuke to ze balu sali to dom, pisa pweri pa ven beosa heym. peo bekyamWhy "ze" rather than "tri" here? It's not an obligatory plural marker, we know the exact number, and "tri" is no more syllables than "ze".
Right. Changed.
In the glossary entry for "sali" you could also mention the (slightly archaic) English word "sally". http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=sally
Will do.
toy kinharzo betoy, fatco peo ten bel kincayn har. peo volcaw to pisa dom.You have "betoy" and "potoy" in the glossary. Are they in free variation? And is "toy/betoy" needed for a word that's marked with "-zo"?
No. Potoy is obsolete. I want to use be to close all just 'parentheticals'. Removed from glossary.
"fatco" as a compound is not terribly perspicuous; you should at least add a glossary entry for the compound if not replace it. I see "tcofa" used a couple of lines later in roughly the same sense.
Here's the reasoning. tco means 'what was said already', so A fatco B means "A because B." go kom fatco go komfo. Breaks down as:
I eat. That is caused by the fact that I'm hungry.The 'fatco' makes a clause with what follows. "go komfo" is the subject, "fa" the verb, and "tco" the object.
tcofa, on the other hand, is the opposite. go komfo tcofa go kom. I'm hungry therefore I eat. Here, tco is the subject and the phrase 'go kom' is the object.
peo pa trey komvol, kay djanvol kyu komxo sta to pisa dom. tcofa peo padorku kay djam. fu bli, kinharzo plufwa dorku.The use of "pa" again after several sentences without it seems to suggest to me a kind of perfect tense or past-in-the-past, e.g.
Right. I eliminated it. Also the next one.
"She had been very hungry" rather than "She was very hungry" I think "komxo" is an error for "komco".
Yes. Fixed.
to tri balu bu sta tci dom, hifa budjin peno dor. fuke pitaym, keo peno dor kay dja dan dom. sur stol sta tri diwali hu bedan dalya. keo komtray dalya hu gasa diwali.Not "hu dan gasa diwali"?
Right. 'dan' added.
bol "tro kyar." kay komtray dalya hu dan diwali hu cengaca. "tro kray." futco keo tray dalya hu dan pisa diwali. bol "genaw haw." kay keo finkom deo.You might add "then" and "next" in addition to "afterwards" as glosses of "futco", to make it easier to find.
Good idea. Now, a question. Normal Tceqli procedure is to take a phrase like ko zi and make it ziko as a compound, because it's a kind of ko, not a kind of zi. I think this should apply to 'fu tco' (after that). So the compound word should be tcofu, just like the term gataympa.
The glossary has "cen" = member and "tcen" = middle. Is it out of date? Then what is "member" now?
cen is person who is associated with the root professionally del is now member tcen is middle
I did a nonce-thing here for medium-sized. gaca means 'bigness', so cengaca would mean medium-bigness, but I don't really like it. I need a prefix word to make of medium size, temperature, whatever. cenga seems like it means of moderate largeness, not medium size. I thought about just 'gapi' and it might work 'kyarkray' of medium temperature. (btw, I finally decided on kray from CRYogenic) If we use that method for merging opposites, we'd end up with tcaqpotcaq for of medium length, paypya for of medium age, etc.What do you think?The former seems too verbose for the spirit of tceqli. Maybe add a morpheme for "middling degree" and use it as a prefix for morphemes that would normally use "po-" instead of reversal for opposite degree? Rick Harrison's Vorlin used (at least for some terms) a basic quality morpheme plus one of three affixes for much, little, and medium amount. Or maybe the medium amount was the root and the much and little adjectives were derived from it; I can't recall offhand. I think Ladekwa uses a similar method, but with five gradations.
I think you're right. I think we can just use tcenga for medium-sized.
fu kom, kinharzo dormfo. keo dja dan dormtcam kay prontray cwaq hu ga. bol "tro dur". futco keo prontray cwaq hu pi. bol "tro dru". futco keo prontray cwaq hu gapi[1]. za bol "genaw haw", kaydjiq[2] dje dorm. 1. or "tcenga" or "zemga"[3] something else... 2. I left "kaydjiq" alone from my last version because although I see "jiq" and "djiq" are not in the glossary anymore , I can't see where you added any other equivalent for "but" either.
I put djiq back in, meaning 'surprise', and it can indeed be used in compound with hi or kay to mean 'but', and so can 'bya'. It's a matter of whether 'but' is meant to seem paradoxical or surprising.
3. "zem" reversal of "mez", for "medium amount" contrasting with "tcen" "central part of a space".
That would be good, but zem is already the ordinal ending. I think tcen is all we need.
fuke kinharzo dorm gike pitaym, to tri balu bisali bedan to bawmgu dan to dom. pamo balu caw to diwali hu ga, kay bol "ta djin komtray gosa dalya." pami balu caw to diwali hu gapi, kay bol "ta djin komtray gosa dalya." balubin caw to diwali hu pi, kay bolkri "ta djin finkom gosa dalya!"
How do you mean 'bisali' here?
Rex May rmay@hidden.email See some of my cartoons at: http://homepage.mac.com/rmay/ NOW UPDATED REGULARLY!