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--- In ceqli@yahoogroups.com, "HandyDad" <lsulky@r...> wrote: > --- In ceqli@yahoogroups.com, "Rex May" <rmay@m...> wrote: > ---SNIP--- > > > > zo also has the effect of an affectionate diminutive, like Johnny, I > think. Names will continue > > to have Ceqli forms, like ti kraun sulki beti, known to friends as > kraunzo. > > This sounds fine, and is vaguely reminiscent of how they do this in > Portuguese (and probably many other languages). It's more common than > not to use a definite article before an initial reference to a proper > name: "Onde esta o Rex?". Admittedly this doesn't mark Rex as a name > but it at least marks it as noun-like, and demonstrates that the extra > syllable doesn't trouble Portuguese speakers. > > > > > And longer names can be treated by shortening with the zo. ti kiqo > beti > kiqzo. > > This suggests that "zo" is not necessarily a diminutive marker. I can > imagine hearing a newscast that would refer initially to "ti kraun > sulky beti" but might thereafter refer to "sulkizo"...while in casual > speech I might be referred to simply as "sulki". Or is that not the > intent? > Yes, that's the intent! "Diminutive" was a poor choice of words. I guess I mean it sort of acts as a shorthand way of converting it into a name and 'turns off' its dictionary meaning, if any. Your illustration of the newscaster is right on. I think it would come to be common to use the whole ti/beti form when first mentioning a name, and thereafter to use either a ti form alone, a zo form, or a letter anaphora (anaphorum?). go pa xau kanin hu sta gosa cer. "kaninzo," go pa bol, "zi kar kua cijai?" Anyhow, the big realization here is that ceqli optionality applies here just like it does in other cases. As was said, humans don't need name-marking for the most part, so it can be left out when not necessary. And this also clears up things like is September a name? It needn't be marked as such, certainly. For now, it's simply gauxar (ninemonth). A nine-month period would be xargaugu. So now we need only make sure a name of a person or whatever fits ceqli phonology to admit it. kraun sulki, kiqo faixar, heludoviko zamenhofo, japanhaim, hamerihaim, kolorado, kanada, hemisisipi fiume, sanfransisko, xikago, etc. Foreign words will be bracketed by tai/betai, and bracketed once more by ti/beti if they are also names. Ti tai Elmer Fudd betai beti. BTW, I'm in the process of rereading Pinker's _The Language Instinct_ and hoping to get some insights from it.