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Re: Names



--- In ceqli@yahoogroups.com, "HandyDad" <lsulky@r...> wrote:
> --- In ceqli@yahoogroups.com, "Rex May" <rmay@m...> wrote:
> ---SNIP---
> > 
> > zo also has the effect of an affectionate diminutive, like 
Johnny, I 
> think.  Names will continue 
> > to have Ceqli forms, like ti kraun sulki beti, known to friends 
as 
> kraunzo.
> 
> This sounds fine, and is vaguely reminiscent of how they do this 
in 
> Portuguese (and probably many other languages). It's more common 
than 
> not to use a definite article before an initial reference to a 
proper 
> name: "Onde esta o Rex?". Admittedly this doesn't mark Rex as a 
name 
> but it at least marks it as noun-like, and demonstrates that the 
extra 
> syllable doesn't trouble Portuguese speakers.
> 
> > 
> > And longer names can be treated by shortening with the zo.   ti 
kiqo 
> beti > kiqzo.
> 
> This suggests that "zo" is not necessarily a diminutive marker. I 
can 
> imagine hearing a newscast that would refer initially to "ti kraun 
> sulky beti" but might thereafter refer to "sulkizo"...while in 
casual 
> speech I might be referred to simply as "sulki". Or is that not 
the 
> intent?
> 

Yes, that's the intent!  "Diminutive" was a poor choice of words.  I 
guess I mean it sort of acts as a shorthand way of converting it 
into a name and 'turns off' its dictionary meaning, if any.  Your 
illustration of the newscaster is right on.  I think it would come 
to be common to use the whole ti/beti form when first mentioning a 
name, and thereafter to use either a ti form alone, a zo form, or a 
letter anaphora (anaphorum?).

go pa xau kanin hu sta gosa cer.  "kaninzo," go pa bol, "zi kar kua 
cijai?"

Anyhow, the big realization here is that ceqli optionality applies 
here just like it does in other cases. As was said, humans don't 
need name-marking for the most part, so it can be left out when not 
necessary.

And this also clears up things like is September a name?  It needn't 
be marked as such, certainly.  For now, it's simply gauxar 
(ninemonth).  A nine-month period would be xargaugu.

So now we need only make sure a name of a person or whatever fits 
ceqli phonology to admit it.  kraun sulki, kiqo faixar, heludoviko 
zamenhofo, japanhaim, hamerihaim, kolorado, kanada, hemisisipi 
fiume, sanfransisko, xikago, etc.  Foreign words will be bracketed 
by tai/betai, and bracketed once more by ti/beti if they are also 
names.  Ti tai Elmer Fudd betai beti.

BTW, I'm in the process of rereading Pinker's _The Language 
Instinct_ and hoping to get some insights from it.