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--- In ceqli@yahoogroups.com, Rex May - Baloo <rmay@m...> wrote: > on 2/22/04 8:53 PM, HandyDad at lsulky@r... wrote: > > > --- In ceqli@yahoogroups.com, Rex May - Baloo <rmay@m...> wrote: > > zv, zg, zd okay. I have a theory that dz is less clear than ts, and zh and > dzh aren't very distinguishable ? not nearly as much as x and c. I guess because I'm exposed heavily to Quebecois French, my impression differs. In Quebecois, zh and dzh are strongly distinguished, as are z and dz. x and c, not so much; ts is unheard-of. --SNIP-- > > Solutions are: > > > > 1) Prohibit initial consonant clusters (therefore, all consonant > > clusters). > > > > 2) Require full [e] pronunciation of letter "e" everywhere. > > I'll go along with this one. Now, 'e' at end of words should be pronounced > either as in bed or as in santé. I have no problem with the first > pronunciation, but some do. Now, we have to distinguish between e and ey, > and that requires definite emphasizing the latter, almost to the extent of > making two syllables of it. Okay, that solves the problem as far as I'm concerned! And I agree about the pronunciation of "ey" -- it's almost "eyi". Also, I tend to cut "e" quite short when at the end of a word, just to guard against its diphthongizing. > >> but if you think about it, it's analogous to the c sound > >> x is to c as s is to ts. They're both actually affricates, as is j, > > not > >> clusters. > > > > Quite so. Remember way back when I was urging that 'zh' be > > represented by "j" and 'j' by "dj"? And if we're going to have "ts", > > then why not "dz"? :-) > > As I wrote above, I don't thing those distinctions are as distinguishable. > You run into ts/s contrasts everywhere, almost, but never into dz/z > contrasts. Something about the voicing makes them harder to distinguish, I > think. By permitting schwa buffering, these other consonant clusters don't have to be specifically forbidden; we just won't invent any words that use them. Names might still use them, of course. --K