[YG Conlang Archives] > [ceqli group] > messages [Date Index] [Thread Index] >


[Date Prev] [Date Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next]

Re: discursives



--- In ceqli@yahoogroups.com, Rex May - Baloo <rmay@m...> 
wrote:
> on 2/22/04 8:53 PM, HandyDad at lsulky@r... wrote:
> 
> > --- In ceqli@yahoogroups.com, Rex May - Baloo 
<rmay@m...> wrote:
> 
> zv, zg, zd okay.  I have a theory that dz is less clear than ts, and 
zh and
> dzh aren't very distinguishable ? not nearly as much as x and c.  

I guess because I'm exposed heavily to Quebecois French, my 
impression differs. In Quebecois, zh and dzh are strongly 
distinguished, as are z and dz. x and c, not so much; ts is 
unheard-of.

--SNIP--
> > Solutions are:
> > 
> > 1) Prohibit initial consonant clusters (therefore, all consonant
> > clusters).
> > 
> > 2) Require full [e] pronunciation of letter "e" everywhere.
> 
> I'll go along with this one.  Now, 'e' at end of words should be 
pronounced
> either as in bed or as in santé.  I have no problem with the first
> pronunciation, but some do.   Now, we have to distinguish 
between e and ey,
> and that requires definite emphasizing the latter, almost to the 
extent of
> making two syllables of it.

Okay, that solves the problem as far as I'm concerned! And I 
agree about the pronunciation of "ey" -- it's almost "eyi". Also, I 
tend to cut "e" quite short when at the end of a word, just to guard 
against its diphthongizing.

> >> but if you think about it, it's analogous to the c sound
> >> x is to c as s is to ts. They're both actually affricates, as is j,
> > not
> >> clusters.
> > 
> > Quite so. Remember way back when I was urging that 'zh' be
> > represented by "j" and 'j' by "dj"? And if we're going to have 
"ts",
> > then why not "dz"? :-)
> 
> As I wrote above, I don't thing those distinctions are as 
distinguishable.
> You run into ts/s contrasts everywhere, almost, but never into 
dz/z
> contrasts.  Something about the voicing makes them harder to 
distinguish, I
> think.

By permitting schwa buffering, these other consonant clusters 
don't have to be specifically forbidden; we just won't invent any 
words that use them. Names might still use them, of course.

--K