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--- In ceqli@yahoogroups.com, Rex May - Baloo <rmay@m...> wrote:
> on 2/15/04 9:03 PM, Rex May - Baloo at rmay@m... wrote:
>
> > on 2/15/04 7:27 PM, HandyDad at lsulky@r... wrote:
> >
>
> Basically, there's no problem with.
>
> Go dorm sur to cwaq. I sleep on the bed. or
> Go sur to cwag dorm I'm on the bed, sleeping.
>
> Except that we need a disambiguator. Wait:
>
> Go sur to cwaq de dorm. or Go dorm hu sur to cwaq.
> I on-the-beddingly sleep. or
>
> Go dorm de sur to cwaq. or Go sur to cwaq hu dorm.
> I sleepingly am on the bed.
>
> Or is there an inconsistency here? Can de be used to set off an
adverb as
> well as an adjective phrase?
>
> So, then, we need a change-of-place way of distinguishing
>
> I walk into the house
> from
> I walk in the house.
>
I'm too tired tonight to think very clearly about it. But it's
becoming clear to me that these prepositional phrases that function
as adverbs of place are exactly parallel to adverbs of time or any
other adverbs, and they relate to their verb headwords in the same
way that adjectives relate to their noun headwords.
Let's sum up:
We have, in Ceqli, two ways of indicating modifiers:
1) {modifier} "de" {headword}
2) {headword} "hu" {modifier}
The modifier may be a single word or a phrase. Although these
structures have been discussed as applying to noun phrases, it seems
as though they should also apply to verb phrases.
We also have objects of verbs. It may be that these are qualitatively
different from adverbs; but can they be handled as though they are
not?
'I gave a lovely gift to Sarah.'
We think of 'gift' as a three-place verb: subject; direct object
(that which is given); indirect object (that which receives).
'I gave a lovely gift in her memory.'
We think of 'in her memory' as an adverb of (figurative) place, but
we don't think of 'to Sarah' as an adverb of...what? Direction? Why
not? They both describe and further specify the act of giving.
Yes, there are distinctions that linguists can and do make, but can
ordinary people trying to use a language make those same
distinctions? Do they want to even if they can?
I kind of want to consider ANY prepositional phrase associated with a
verb, be it an indirect object or an adverb of place or time, as a
modifier, to be dealt with using one of "de" or "hu".
'I to Sarah "de" gave a lovely "de" gift.'
'I in her memory "de" gave a lovely "de" gift.'
That's as far as I can get tonight.
--Krawn