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Re: names



--- In ceqli@yahoogroups.com, Rex May - Baloo <rmay@m...> wrote:
--SNIP--
> > kay zise hilpro, sa bu kom te karn.
> 
> Or maybe more Ceqli-like to say
> 
> kay zise hilpron, sa kom zoysi karn.
> > 
:-)
--SNIP--
> > 
> > 3) I infer that titles are to be handled like 'the doctor': 'May 
I present the
> > captain Kirk'; 'Help me, the captain Kirk, I've been shot!'.
> 
> I guess.  I'll have to think about that.  You have any better 
notions?

At first that way seemed okay, but it may cause confusion between 
addressing and identifying:

"Stop the doctor."
"Stop, Doctor."
"Stop Dr. Chen."
"Stop, Dr. Chen."
"Dr. Chen stops."

Actually, I think the distinction between address and identification 
is the real issue here, not so much the form of titles.

"Pare to hilpro."
"Pare, hilpro san." -or- "Pare, hilpro."
"Pare to hilpro ti Cen."
"Pare, hilpro san ti Cen." -or- "Pare, hilpro ti Cen."
"Hilpro ti Cen pare."

Does it make sense for an article-less (and otherwise unadorned) noun 
to be treated as a 
title? That is what we do in English.

> 
> > 
> > 4) Is it important to be able to distinguish, yet group, the 
individual
> > non-Ceqli 
> > names that go together to make up a full name: 'I saw Rufus Redd
> > downtown.'? I think I'd like a way to know that the designations 
are 'Rufus'
> > and 'Redd', not 'Ru' and 'Fusredd', and both names refer to the 
same person.
> 
> Ah, how about interposing commas?   Go pa xaw tiya rufus, redd 
betiya.
> Which are to be read as pauses, or as the word 'koma'
> > 

Actually, the earlier suggestion that multisyllabic word boundaries 
be indicated by a falling/rising tone profile would work here, 
too. "tiya Rùfús Red betiya" vs. "tiya Ru Fùsréd betiya". I think 
that would be enough. 

Pauses can help too. We should be prepared for pauses to stand in for 
rigourous logic either where it hasn't been invented yet or where 
it's too cumbersome for the speaker.

> > 5) "Sa" is an exceptionally useful word, as M. Poirot would 
frequently remind
> > us if he spoke Ceqli. It seems to me that it could be used in 
place of the
> > three-word series of enders to convey the idea of finishing off 
any
> > outstanding 
> > clause and adding it to the subject, the whole mess ultimately to 
be referred
> > to by "sa" in the subject position. This may have been implicit 
to you, but
> > I'm 
> > just now getting to that understanding:
> 
> Ha! Never thought of that possibility.  Sounds possible, 
certainly.  We'll
> have to see if there are any paradoxes there.
> 
I think it should be okay as a shorthand for "close up any 
outstanding clause", which should always be a valid operation. Its 
meaning might be modified when used with certain conjunctions. For 
example, 'kay' might add the value of "sa" into the previous value.

--SNIP--
> > [It might be always necessary to clearly mark the end of non-
Ceqli names,
> > though.]

That's because we suppose that "sa" could be a syllable within a non-
Ceqli name. We do rule out the string "betiya" from non-Ceqli names, 
but we have to draw the line somewhere.

--SNIP--
> > 
> > Maybe objects and verb phrases could be gathered up this way too. 
I suggest
> > this because I suspect that nested constructs will often un-nest 
all at once
> > at 
> > their trailing end: ( x ( y ( z ( w )))).
> > 
> Often, yes.  I know they do in Loglan.  This is fun.
> 

Good! I'm very eager to figure out enough to go forward and see Ceqli 
make a mark. 

---Larry