[YG Conlang Archives] > [ceqli group] > messages [Date Index] [Thread Index] >


[Date Prev] [Date Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next]

RE: [txeqli] Re: Structure Words



Rex:
> on 4/21/02 11:04 AM, And Rosta at a-rosta@hidden.email wrote:
> > I'd say that associating part of speech with a particular CV pattern
> > is too restrictive. For the very short and high frequency words, there
> > need be no patterning of form and function at all, as these are basic
> > words to be learnt right at the outset. For longer and lower frequency
> > words, some patterning of form and function could be useful, but it
> > could involve particular Cs and particular Vs, rather than tying up
> > whole CV templates.
> 
> On the other hand, one of the things that drew me to Loglan was that very
> restriction.   I like the 3-way divison of predicates, names, and the
> structure words. You're saying that we maybe could have a more complicated
> set of rules for this?  

I'm saying two things. Firstly, that 3-way division is spurious;
it does not reflect any underlying reality of the language.
Secondly, the form--function restrictions have adverse effects,
in that common predicates can't receive really short forms,
while very obscure structure words do receive very short forms.

What I think is better is something like the way, say, that
English question words begin with wh-. Not all words beginning
wh- are question words, but it helps maintain a certain overall
orderliness that a form-function pattern unites the question
words.


I've attempted that with the Plosive thing.  Could
> you give an example of how this might work?   If we go with CV, we only have
> around 14x6, or 84 pivor, and one of them could be a converter of predicates
> to pivor.  Would around 80 pivor be enough to cover all the high-frequency
> pivor we'd need? If we allowed the diphthongs as well, it would be
> considerably more.
> 
> I guess the question is, how many high-frequency pivor do we need?

I'm resistant to the very notion of pivor as a single class.
There is no clear boundary between 'structure' and 'content'
words, and both sorts fall into distinct subtypes with distinct
semantic and grammatical characteristics.

I think you'd be better off building your vocab from the bottom
up and then assigning appropriate forms later on, once you see
what patterns are emerging in the vocab.

--And.