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on 3/29/02 12:35 PM, Mike Wright at darwin@hidden.email wrote:
> Rex May - Baloo wrote:
>>
>>
>> Fu go kom, da ho dorm. Or, for extreme clarity
>> Fuke go kom, da ho dorm. Or, for computer-programming clarity
> At the very least, "fu" or "fuke" should go immediately before the
> verb, don't you think? Otherwise, doesn't it apply to the entire
> sentence (as we discussed with "clearly")? Of course then it doesn't
> sound much like English:
>
> Go fuke kom, da ho dorm.
No, the 'ke' is like the 'that' in English, introducing a phrase which may
or may not be an independent sentence.
Fuke go kom, da ho dorm.
After that I eat, he went to sleep.
Or, we have two claused connected.
Go kom do ho dorm.
They are both sentences all by themselves, but we want to make a statement
about how they relate. The first takes place before the second, so they are
connected by fu. It does connect them, tho it doesn't come between.
>
>> Fuke go kom beke, da ho dorm.
>
> I don't understand what "beke" means.
it closes the ke-phrase like parentheses. It means 'go kom' is to be
regarded as a unit with respect to the rest of the sentence. The beke says
where it ends.
>
>> So, analysing your forms, what's happening is that 'kwaysa kom' modifies
>> 'fu'.
>
> Yes.
>
>> So you're sort of regarding 'fu' as an adverb, a la mandarin.
>
> No, as a noun, a la Mandarin.
>
>> Whereas I'm regarding it as a conjunction,
>
> Conjunction? Connecting what with what?
The two clauses.
>
>> admittedly doubling as an adverb
>> for the purpose of simple tense indication.
>
> I see "sa" as being equivalent to Mandarin genitive <de> (or literary
> <zhi1>), so "go kom sa fu" is literally "the future of my eating",
> meaning "after my eating". Actually, Mandarin uses the morphemes
> <qian2> "front, fore" and <hou4> "back, rear, hind, aft", not having
> morphemes for "future" and "past". So, where I used "sa-fu",
> "sa-samne" would have been closer. (You'll learn <yi3qian2> for
> "before" and <yi3hou4> for "after". In writing we sometimes see the
> genitive <zhi1> in place of <yi3>.) Japanese has a very similar
> structure, using the genitive "no" with "mae" ("front") and "ato"
> ("back"), as well as the Sino-Japanese "izen" (<yi3qian2>) and "igo"
> (<yi3hou>).
>
> "Fuke" and "pake" would be adverbs, while "safu" and "sapa" would be
> particle-noun compounds.
>
>> Can both these forms be used? Anybody else's input here?
>
> I think one or the other. I don't mind "fuke" and "pake", as long as
> they immediately precede the verb.
So again, let's see how it works.
To go kom sa fu, da ho dorm.
The future of my eating, he went to sleep.
So the whole thing is an adverb?
--
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> Rex F. May (Baloo)
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