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----- Original Message ----- > Geoffrey Horswood jazdy: > > > > The "-er" isn't exactly future "will" so much as unreal "would". > > In most Qypchaq Turkic langs "-ar/-ïr" form is used as vaguely 'non-past', > at least according to my notes: > > - mere future: > Kumyk: _bararman_ 'I will go', _görürsen_ 'you.sn will see'; > Karai: _alïrmïn_ 'I will take'; > Gagauz: _alarïm_/_alïrïm_, _bilärsiniz_/_bilirsiniz_ 'you.pl will know'; > also in Tatar. > > - probable future: > Balkar: _alïrma_ 'I will probably take', _ishlerbiz_ 'we will probably > work'; > Nogay: _bararsïz_ 'you.pl will probably go'. > > - future or habitual present: > Qïrïm Tatar: _alïrïm_ 'I will take'/'I usu. take', _körersing_ 'you.sn will > see'/'you usu. see'; > Karakalpak: _alarman_, _körersen_. > > I suppose in Kazakh and O'zbek the probability component is felt stronger. > > > >Please try to translate the following samples; I want to know if there is > > >difference between "unreal condition wrt prasent" and "unreal condition > wrt > > >past": > > > > > >1. If I come, you will give it to me. > > > > Eger men kelsem, sen maghan bereysin. > > OR > > Eger men kelsem, sen maghan berer. > > > > >2. If I came, you would give it to me. > > > > Eger men kelsedim, sen maghan berer. > > > > >3. If I had come, you would have given it to me. > > > > Eger men kelgensem, sen maghan berer edim. > > OR > > Egen men kelser etkenmin, sen maghan berer edim. > > > > > > There are usually multiple ways of saying pretty much the same thing in > > Kazakh. Wonderful language! > > Great. Variant 3b strikes me as a bit artificial, I have never seen yet the > "-sa" forms combined with "-ar" suffix. > > > Geoff/Jomart > > -- Yitzik >