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Romance pronouns also show more remants of case distinctions than the nouns do. There are also Old French and Old Occitan to consider with their two case systems... Dan On Oct 19, 2011, at 4:23 PM, Padraic Brown wrote: > --- On Tue, 10/18/11, Adam Walker <carraxan@hidden.email> wrote: > > > And if you were using only the modern > > Romlangs, even French would be of no > > help. > > Well, Romanian would throw a wrench in the works. It still has some > case distinctions. It would also cause some upset with its suffixed > articles and neuter gender. > > Padraic > > > Adam > > > > On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 6:10 PM, Padraic Brown <elemtilas@hidden.email> > > wrote: > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > There has been some discussion of this over on Conlang > > of late. It is > > > indeed VL that is reconstructed, or something quite > > close to it. I don't > > > see how one could pull full blown Ciceronean CL out of > > caseless Romance > > > languages. > > > > > > The reconstructionist would know, with reasonable > > certainty, that Latin > > > should have cases, but I don't think he could get all > > the declensions > > > and cases from just the Romanian and OFr evidence. > > Though I could be > > > wrong there. > > > > > > Padraic > > > > > > --- On Tue, 10/18/11, Carl Edlund Anderson <cea@hidden.email> > > wrote: > > > > > > > From: Carl Edlund Anderson <cea@hidden.email> > > > > Subject: Re: [romconlang] Reconstructed Latin > > > > To: romconlang@yahoogroups.com > > > > Date: Tuesday, October 18, 2011, 6:18 PM > > > > > > > On 18 Oct 2011, at 14:27 , thomasruhm > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I heard about Latin could be reconstructed > > from > > > > romance languages. I only knew about > > reconstructed late > > > > Vulgar Latin, which already had a very reduced > > case system. > > > > > Would a reconstruction come close to > > documented > > > > Latin? > > > > > > > > > > > > Are you thinking about Hall's reconstructed > > > > Proto-Romance? It comes "reassuringly > > close" to Latin > > > > -- though perhaps a late, Vulgar Latin. For > > example, > > > > Hall was able to determine Latin had contrasting > > vowel sets, > > > > though could not determine that the contrasting > > feature was > > > > length (though, of course, we know that from > > records of > > > > classical Latin). I think reconstructing > > something > > > > exactly like written classical Latin as it is > > preserved > > > > would be quite unlikely; after all, written > > classical Latin > > > > as it is preserved represents only part of what > > was a more > > > > complicated linguistic environment. Likewise, a > > > > reconstruction from later Romance can only > > represent a > > > > portion of what was originally a more complicated > > linguistic > > > > environment. In the case of Latin, we are > > lucky to be > > > > able to do both (i.e. see preserved written > > Latin, and > > > > reconstruct from a range of daughter languages), > > but in any > > > > event we are of necessity approximating. We > > can > > > > postulate with some confidence that there were > > features of > > > > "Roman Latin" that were neither recorded at the > > time nor > > > > reflected in later Romance. Likewise, our records > > of later > > > > Romance are necessarily partial, and we cannot > > know what > > > > what features might have been preserved (or > > innovated) in > > > > some variety of Romance that disappeared without > > > > trace. So how could we hope to construct a > > > > doppelgänger for written classical Latin as it > > is > > > > preserved? That's an "unrealistic" or > > partial thing in > > > > any case ? > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > Carl > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Carl Edlund Anderson > > > > http://www.carlaz.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > > > > romconlang-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > romconlang-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > > romconlang-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > romconlang-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]