[YG Conlang Archives] > [romconlang group] > messages [Date Index] [Thread Index] >


[Date Prev] [Date Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next]

Re: [romconlang] Oscan Romlang



�mne: Re: [romconlang] Oscan Romlang
Fr�n: Benct Philip Jonsson <bpj@hidden.email>
Datum: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 15:10:05 +0100
Till: romconlang@yahoogroups.com

Elliott Lash skrev:
> I don't know if this really counts but, I am really interested in Oscan (and Umbrian) and I thought you'd enjoy it. > This is basically running an inscription through some sound changes as well as some syntax changes. The inscription is:
>
> k�mben-ed thesavr-�m p�n paten-s�-ns m�in�k-ad tangin�d patens�ns. > agree.3S.PST treasury.ACC when open-IMPF.SBJ.3P common-ABL.FM consent-ABL.F " " > It was agreed (that), the treasury, when they should open (it), they should open (it) by common consent.
>
> The New Oscan is:
> cumben-t-e po, pun gios pade-s-ens �u tesoru, agree-PST-3S that when they open-IMPF.SBJ-3P the treasury
>
> ze  padesens                     cu     tangine      moieg-a.
> it    open-IMPF.SBJ-3P  with  consent.F  common-F
>
> /ku~be~tSi po pu~ Zos padeze~S Su tezoru ze padeze~S ku ta~Zine mojegu/
>
> Explanation:
> k�mben-ed This had no past tense characterization in Oscan. In New Oscan, the old perfect marker -tt- was extended to many non-marked past tenses. An example of -tt- in Oscan was pr�fa-tt-ed _he approved_. Hence we get:
> cumben-t-e
>
> po  :    that   from Oscan pod  (Latin  quod)
> gios : they from Oscan iusc (i- pronoun root, -us NOM PL ending, -c, deictic) > �u : the from Oscan exuc (ex- pronoun root, -u[m] ACC ending, -c deictic)
> ze :      it        from Oscan  �d�k  (�d- 'it'  -�k deictic)
> cu :     with    from Oscan  k�m
>
> tangine:     from Oscan accusative,  tangin�m
> moiegu:     from Oscan accusative,   m��n�kam
>
> I'm not sure why I decided that Oscan sounds somewhat like Brazil Portuguese, but it sounded nice :-)
>
> Elliott

Wow!  A cople questions:

* Could we perhaps get a description of the sound changes
  and the sound system of New Oscan?
* What is the sound value of _�_ and _z_ and of _c g_ in
  various positions?
* Is the grammar (very) different from that of Romance natlangs?
* Where is it spoken?  Some scholars used to think that at least
  some Ibero-Romance had a marked Oscan substrate, so it may in
  fact be spoken there.

On the rather stubby WP page on Oscan someone has written:

"Short u generally remains unchanged. After t, d, n, the sound
becomes that of iu. Long /u:/ generally remains unchanged.
It may have changed to an /i:/ sound for final syllables."

To me this seems to imply that Oscan *u(:) was fronted.
What's your take on that?  Not meaning to upset your
creativity, just a reflection.  There are enough Rom-
natlangs/dialects which front and even unround and/or
diphthongize Latin /u:/. When I sketched on a Franco-
Greek bogolang /y/ was something of an embarrasment,
since French has /u:/ > /y/ but (early) Koin� had
both /u:/ and /y(:)/.  Actually I think I'll post
something on this 'Galliotic'!

/BP 8^)>
--
Benct Philip Jonsson -- melroch atte melroch dotte se
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 "C'est en vain que nos Josu�s litt�raires crient
 � la langue de s'arr�ter; les langues ni le soleil
 ne s'arr�tent plus. Le jour o� elles se *fixent*,
 c'est qu'elles meurent."           (Victor Hugo)