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�mne: Re: [romconlang] Oscan Romlang Fr�n: Benct Philip Jonsson <bpj@hidden.email> Datum: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 15:10:05 +0100 Till: romconlang@yahoogroups.com Elliott Lash skrev:> I don't know if this really counts but, I am really interested in Oscan (and Umbrian) and I thought you'd enjoy it. > This is basically running an inscription through some sound changes as well as some syntax changes. The inscription is:
>> k�mben-ed thesavr-�m p�n paten-s�-ns m�in�k-ad tangin�d patens�ns. > agree.3S.PST treasury.ACC when open-IMPF.SBJ.3P common-ABL.FM consent-ABL.F " " > It was agreed (that), the treasury, when they should open (it), they should open (it) by common consent.
> > The New Oscan is:> cumben-t-e po, pun gios pade-s-ens �u tesoru, agree-PST-3S that when they open-IMPF.SBJ-3P the treasury
> > ze padesens cu tangine moieg-a. > it open-IMPF.SBJ-3P with consent.F common-F >> /ku~be~tSi po pu~ Zos padeze~S Su tezoru ze padeze~S ku ta~Zine mojegu/
> > Explanation:> k�mben-ed This had no past tense characterization in Oscan. In New Oscan, the old perfect marker -tt- was extended to many non-marked past tenses. An example of -tt- in Oscan was pr�fa-tt-ed _he approved_. Hence we get:
> cumben-t-e > > po : that from Oscan pod (Latin quod)> gios : they from Oscan iusc (i- pronoun root, -us NOM PL ending, -c, deictic) > �u : the from Oscan exuc (ex- pronoun root, -u[m] ACC ending, -c deictic)
> ze : it from Oscan �d�k (�d- 'it' -�k deictic) > cu : with from Oscan k�m > > tangine: from Oscan accusative, tangin�m > moiegu: from Oscan accusative, m��n�kam >> I'm not sure why I decided that Oscan sounds somewhat like Brazil Portuguese, but it sounded nice :-)
> > Elliott Wow! A cople questions: * Could we perhaps get a description of the sound changes and the sound system of New Oscan? * What is the sound value of _�_ and _z_ and of _c g_ in various positions? * Is the grammar (very) different from that of Romance natlangs? * Where is it spoken? Some scholars used to think that at least some Ibero-Romance had a marked Oscan substrate, so it may in fact be spoken there. On the rather stubby WP page on Oscan someone has written: "Short u generally remains unchanged. After t, d, n, the sound becomes that of iu. Long /u:/ generally remains unchanged. It may have changed to an /i:/ sound for final syllables." To me this seems to imply that Oscan *u(:) was fronted. What's your take on that? Not meaning to upset your creativity, just a reflection. There are enough Rom- natlangs/dialects which front and even unround and/or diphthongize Latin /u:/. When I sketched on a Franco- Greek bogolang /y/ was something of an embarrasment, since French has /u:/ > /y/ but (early) Koin� had both /u:/ and /y(:)/. Actually I think I'll post something on this 'Galliotic'! /BP 8^)> -- Benct Philip Jonsson -- melroch atte melroch dotte se ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "C'est en vain que nos Josu�s litt�raires crient � la langue de s'arr�ter; les langues ni le soleil ne s'arr�tent plus. Le jour o� elles se *fixent*, c'est qu'elles meurent." (Victor Hugo)