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Re: [romconlang] Constructed Latin dialects



Capsicum skrev:
I was thinking about the origin of the italian word 'ragazzo'
meaning boy or young man. I think it could be 'reguardius'.
Sometimes '-di-' does sometimes develop into -'zz'-. Right now
I don't have an example on mind. I hope the last sentence is
correct English. The 'ra-' i would explane by assimilaton to
'-a-' in the second syllable like in Vulgar Latin 'salvaticus
porcus' in which 'salvaticus' got the meaning of 'silvaticus'.

What do you think about 'reguardius'? I am working on Raetic
and Langobardic Latin but it takes a lot of time. I did not get
so far so far. It is much work and I am not that good at Latin
yet.

Meyer-L�bke discusses several possible
derivations for _ragazzo_ a bit down in
the entry copied below.

(Since Yahoo mangles Unicode I've replaced
fancy diacritics by punctuation characters
before the relevant letters -- all but @
which represents ring below should be iconic
-- and put the words concerned in { braces } .)

7019.. Rakanus 1. , Laubfrosch". 2. "gr�ne
Eidechse", 3. "Kriekente". 1. Ablt.: rum.
{r)ac)anel}, {r)ac)a,tel} {r)ac)ale,t}, ital.
raganella, sen. rakanelia, modon. rainela, bologn.
ranganeila: venez., p�d. {r/akola}; bologn.
raganeila "R�cheln", march. raganella
"Heiserkeit". 2. Neap., abruzz. {rak@en@e}, r�m.
{r/akano}, sen. {r/akono}, aret. {r/agano}. 3.
Ablt. : venez. raganelo, riganelo, rakoleta,
Chiusi: rakkanella. (Eins und drei sind wohl
Schallw�rter, zwei von eins �bertragen nach der
Farbe. Allerdings m��te dann die Betonung im einen
oder im andern Falle sekund�r sein. Zusammenhang
mit RAUCUS 7093 Misc. Ascoli 437 ist nicht wohl
m�glich. Die W�rter f�r "Elster": sav. ragaso,
norm. ragas d�rften mit diesem rak- nichts zu tun
haben, sondern Umgestaltungen aus frz. agace 129
sein, ebenso geh�ren romagn. argadza, tosk.
ragazza zu ital. gazza 3640, wie schon die
Qualit�t des -zz- zeigt. Daher kann auch ital.
ragazzo "Knabe", ragazza , M�dchen" ZRPh., Bhft.
XXVII, 148 nicht mit den W�rtern f�r "Elster"
zusammenh�ngen. Zudem ist die �lteste Bedeutung
von ragazzo (> langued. ragas "Tro�knecht",
"M�llerbursche", "Hirt", ragaso "Magd")
"Pferdeknecht". Die Herleitung von RACA 69S2 Diez,
Wb. 392 oder von RADICARE 6993 AGlItal. III, 328
ist begrifflich und formell abzulehnen. Ob der
Vokal in venez., veron., crem., abergam., apiac.
regatso Mussafia, Beitr. 93 urspr�nglich oder
durch Anlehnung an das Pr�fix re- entstanden ist,
ist nicht ausgemacht).

In the third edition he adds that Greek
ergates 'workman'  "erkl�rt den ausgang nicht".
Some connection with the variant form _ergastes_
or a blend with _ergaster_, also 'workman'
make the Greek connexion seem possible to me,
though.

But in short not even Meyer-L�bke knew!
It should be noted that Romance words for
'child, boy' generally are a bog of slangy
dysphemisms for 'rascal, urchin' anyway.
(compare English _urchin_ itself!)

/BP 8^)>
--
Benct Philip Jonsson -- melroch atte melroch dotte se
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 "C'est en vain que nos Josu�s litt�raires crient
 � la langue de s'arr�ter; les langues ni le soleil
 ne s'arr�tent plus. Le jour o� elles se *fixent*,
 c'est qu'elles meurent."           (Victor Hugo)