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On 26 May 2009, at 14:43, Carl Edlund Anderson wrote:
On 26 May 2009, at 13:59, thomasruhm wrote:I too sometimes find Latin got to many strange influences. If you have text in your alternative language please send me them and I try to understand them. I often read text in languages I did not learn.I do sometimes use the opening lines of R.E. Howard's "Nemedian Chronicles" epigraph (from the beginning of "The Phoenix on the Sword"; I ought to have a go at that in one or more of my "Aqileian" languages. I'd have to think more about the verbs, though, then! :)
OK, I have had a go at the opening lines of this text in my Aqileian/ Aqilonian (I vacillate between those names, themselves influenced by both real Italic place-names and also R.E. Howard's "Aquilonia", probably also borrowed from the wouthern Italian Aquilonia), which is basically the starting point for my whole "alternative Romance" family:
=====Sapi, nêr, qaî enter annons en qeis maria Atlantidim kiwitâtensqe splendêntens bibânt eti adskensom puklom Ariî, îâ-psi essied aiwotâss ne somnîsêt qamdô regnâ radiantâ kubâsênt tendentâ trâns ôrbim terrôm qomodo mantâ mobrâ sub stêrlâis ....
=====Admittedly, I'm not very good at genuine Latin, though I have passable Spanish (I live and work in a Spanish-speaking country), so although some elements of Aqileian/Aqilonian deliberately echo Modern Romance languages, I may have simply screwed up some bits of Latin grammar without having meant too. (Especially when it comes to verbs -- I'm verb bad with Latin verbs, and verbs are likewise the weakest point of my Spanish.)
Here are my notes on individual words in the above passage .... sapi: 2nd imp. verb, basically standard Latin with -i restored. nêr: masc.voc.sg. r-stem noun, c.f. Oscan niir < PIE *h2nêr-.qaî: fem.nom.sg. relative pronoun, referring to aiwotâss. A qu- relative pronoun is used here in preference to a particle like PIE/ Latin ut, retaining a more modern Romance feel (Spanish would use que here). The relative clause has verbs in the subjunctive.
enter: preposition governing acc., showing failure of PIE *en- > L in-. annons: neut.acc.pl. showing retention -o-ns (Latin -ôs). en: preposition governing ablative, showing failure of PIE *en > L in.qeis: masc.abl.plural, governed by en but referring back to annons. (I may have this wrong!) mariâ: neut.nom.pl. i-stem noun. (The Proto-Italic antecedent of Latin mare is regularly reconstructed as *mari, though I don’t understand the development /a/ from the regularly reconstructed PIE form *mori. Possibly Proto-Italic *mari is from a zero-grade form like *mr=i; PIE /r=/ before a vowel could apparently result in Latin / ar/. Alternatively, PIE *mo.CV- > PrIt *ma.CV-, as in PIE *mon-o- > L manus.) Atlantidim: acc.sg. i-stem noun, but this doesn’t really belong, being an adapted Greek form in a context without Greek. Possibly I should reinterpret Atlantis as a plain nominative i-stem, and create acc.sg. Atlantim? kiwitâtens: fem.acc.pl. t-stem noun, showing retention of -e-ns (Latin -ês). -qe: post-positioned copulative particle. PIE o-stem *keiw-o- apparently reformed as i-stem in Latin civis. splendêntens: fem.acc.pl. present participle, showing retention of -e- ns (Latin -ês). bibânt: 3rd pl. past perf. subj. verb, basically standard Latin with long -â- restored.
eti: copulative particle showing retention of final -i (Latin et).adskensom: masc.acc.sg. o-stem noun (from participle), governed by enter. puklom: masc.gen.pl. cf. Oscan acc.sg. puklum < PIE pu-tlo-; Aqilonian follows the Oscan model, and does not insert an anaptytic vowel as Latin apparently does in some similar cases, c.f. pôculum < pôcolom < pôclom < *peh3-tlo-.) Ariî: masc.gen.sg. jo-stem noun. This is a proto-Kûriac dialect form; Aqilonian also had alternative o-stem gen.sg. ending -osio, as found in Ausonic. îâ-psi: Internally declinable demonstrative pronoun, from îâ (Latin ea) + particle -psi, c.f. possible Continental Celtic -xsi < *-psi. (remodeled, non-internally declineable Latin ipsa). essied: 3rd s.g. imperf. subjunctive, basically the Latin form with restored -ied. This is really es + sied (> 3rd. pres. subj. sit) from PIE optative. aiwotâss: fem.nom.sg. t-stem, with *-t-s > -ss. (Or should I introduce a -z < *-t-s here?)
ne: negative adverb.somnîsêt: 3rd sg. imperf. subj., basically the Latin verb form with PrIt *-sê- for Latin --ri- restored.
qamdô: basically an archaized Latin quando. regnâ: radiantâ: neut.nom.pl. present participle.kubâsênt. 3rd pl. imperf. subj., basically the Latin verb form with PrIt *-sê- for Latin -re- restored.
tendentâ: neut.nom.pl. present participle.trâns: Latin trans, analyzed as from earlier trams < trHm=s instead of from trântis.
ôrbim: masc.acc.sg. i-stem noun. terrôm: masc.gen.pl. o-stem noun.qomodo: Basically Latin quomodo, being used as would Spanish como for a bit of a more modern Romance vibe. mantâ: neut.nom.pl. o-stem noun. Latin mantel(l)um may be a diminutive of mantum, possibly from a Celtic source (and I have Celtic-type conlangs in my world, though not Greek). I’ve used this word in preference to something based on pallium for no better reason really than that I live in Latin America, where the word manta, an alteration of manto < mantum is quite common, and I wanted to make a little linguistic tribute to it.
mobrâ: neut.nom.pl. o-stem adj. (PIE modhro-). sub: Just Latin sub.stêrlâis. fem.abl.sg. a-stem noun, governed by preposition sub. The ablative is later retained in Kûriac, but lost in Ausonic.
Perhaps the assembled wisdom of the list can find any particular hiccups in that first effort before I have a go at the rest of the passage in either Aqileian/Aqilonian or any of its daughter languages! :)
Cheers, Carl -- Carl Edlund Anderson http://www.carlaz.com/