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I just found out that the change of Vulgar Latin [c] (i.e. Latin C before front vowels) to [ts\] can't have been very early, or there wouldn't be Latin DICERE > Italian and French _dire_. The voicing of [c] to [J\] and/or weakening to [j\] must have preceded any change of [c] into an affricate. Note that in Italian and Eastern Romance generally there was no merger of VL C before front vowels and VL TJ, so this change of [c] > [j\] before a consonant must have preceded even the French change of [c] > [t_j]! What do ye all think? /BP 8^)> -- Benct Philip Jonsson -- melroch atte melroch dotte se ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "C'est en vain que nos Josu�s litt�raires crient � la langue de s'arr�ter; les langues ni le soleil ne s'arr�tent plus. Le jour o� elles se *fixent*, c'est qu'elles meurent." (Victor Hugo)