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From: Peter Collier Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2007 6:45 PM Benct Philip Jonsson <bpj@hidden.email> wrote: >>> Shouldn't PATER > Paßer/Passer, like >>> *water > Wasser? Obviously 'sparrow' >>> would have to be something other than >>> PASSER. >> According to my references the intervocalic to >> shift didn't occur after short /a/ (no idea >> *why*), so I have for example /fra:ter/ > /Tra:ter/ > >> /trasser/, but /pater/ > /pa:ter/ (the /a/ > /a:/ >> ultimately arising from the open $) >Wouldn't _wasser_ be a counterexample to that? "No. At least, not as far as I made out from my references at the time - all of which are currently 5600 km away so I can't check! Assumming my references are correct (and they are respected works so I hope they are !), I can only summise the /a/ in WGmc was long (I believe it still is in Dutch and low Saxon?) and so the /t/ changed to /ss/ and the presence of the double consonant later worked its magic and the original /a:/ became /a/ in high German dialects." The stressed vowel in WGmc *watar was short. Length in English, Dutch and Low Saxon is owing to different developments of lengthening. Dan [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]