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--- In romconlang@yahoogroups.com, Adam Walker <carrajena@y...> wrote: > > --- habarakhe4 <theophilus88@h...> wrote: > > The last reference to the the "rebaptizati" (but > > only in Africa) is in AD 768. Female priests > > and prophetesses were common features of > > non-Catholic branches of Roman Christianity > > (and charismatic movements more generally, if Mary > > Eddy Baker and Emma Hale Smith are > > any indication) > > > > Where is that reference found? I'm still slowly > tracking down references. What are you classifying as > Non-Catholic Roman Christianity? I'm writing a paper on Donatism for class. I'll send you the finished bibliography. Non-Catholic: I'm thinking mostly about Donatists and Montanists here. rather than a Medieval or Reformation distinction. > > I don't want to get into a doctrinal debate here, but > just FYI no Charismatic that I've ever known would > claim Mary Baker Eddy, and I'm not sure who Emma Hale > Smith even is. However, the chiurches I've grown up > in all ordain women and I've heard some fantastic > messages preached by women over the years. Mary Baker > Eddy indeed! Well, some people are blessed with the ability to preach (in the strictest sense of the word), and some aren't. Emma Hale Smith was the legal wife of Joseph Smith (leader of the LDs, y'know). She remained behind when Brigham Young took off for Utah Territory and supported the group of non-Utah Mormons. When the LDS attempted to acquire Joseph Smith's personal items, including religious ones, the US government supported Emma, Smith's widow, as legal custodian of the papers. > > > The Berber Jew who led a revolt against the earliest > > Muslims was Kohena (the Priestess). > > > > Yes, the position of women in Berber society seems to > have been quite free compared to other Mediterranian > societies of the day. Of course, being the only daughter of the chief would significantly improve a woman's odds of being taken seriously. > > > The original Donatists were obsessed with the purity > > of the apostolic succession, so I find > > this group approach to the consecration hard to > > credit. On the other hand, African > > tradition at the time of the traditores rquired > > twelve bishops for a valid ordination, so I > > suppose a tradition of group consecration could > > develop. > > > > I don't find a conflict, but perhaps it could be an > issue of some controversy in the early days of the > Church of the Faithful even requiring a church council > to resolve the question. And what I was suggesting > wasn't a group consecration, but a consecration by the > head of the household. I think you've gotton confused > by the intermingled way the conversation grew between > Padraic and me. > > Some of my comments were about my Donatists and some > were about my real-world *here* religious background. > The "group consecration", if I understand what you > mean by that, happens *here* in the churches I've > grown up in, not in Donatist churches *there*. Maybe the consecration of the meal by the head of the household is an extension downward of basic clan principles (how large is a Carraxan household?). Or perhaps ordination to the diaconate is much more common in Carraxan traditions amd only a few formally fulfill the office. I know that some early Dissenter movements regarded the father of the house as the equivalent of a priest. > > Adam > > Jin nifalud fistus todus idavi eseud adimpuudu ul isu fi aved niminchunadu pera ul Dju peu'l medju djul provedu cumvi dichid: «Iñi! Cunchepijid ed nadajid il virdjini ad junu huiju, ed cuamajuns ad si il Emanueli fi sñivigad ul Dju simu noviscu.» > > Machu 1:22-23