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Thanks, all, for the "Usted" responses. It set off another fascinating exchange... The reason for my query is that a friend of mine is learning Spanish, which is not a language I've made any effort with before. He's enlisted my help with understanding verb conjugation and so on, and I noticed that Usted[es] takes the third person forms: bells rang, summoning images of Sie, U, De (Scandinavian) and so on. It's long fascinated me, the way that the 2nd person pronouns of so many European langs have had a chequered history as a result of this formal/informal distinction, and the linguistic hoops people have jumped through to avoid saying "you". For Capraian, I'm inclined to commandeer the reflexive pronoun "sec" for polite-2nd-person duty ("Would herself like another cucumber sandwich?") -- has anyone here done similarly, or have you followed the Usted/U or Sie/De/Lei patterns? James ========================================================================== james@hidden.email James Campbell www.zolid.com Jameld web site: www.zolid.com/zm Plexus Inventions: www.zolid.com/plexus ==========================================================================