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Re: Latin Question



--- In romanceconlang@yahoogroups.com, "Christian Thalmann 
<cinga@g...>" <cinga@g...> wrote:
> --- In romanceconlang@yahoogroups.com, "Etherman23 
<etherman23@y...>"
> <etherman23@y...> wrote:
> 
> Make sure you completely forget the nonsensical custom of the
> English language to call its estranged diphthongised vowel 
> phonemes "long".  

Yes, English is quite evil.

> In Latin, what we mean by a long vowel *is* a long vowel -- 
> spoken for a markedly longer duration than a short one, but 
> with the same quality.

So far so good.
 
> Under no circumstances should you allow anglicised 
> pronunciations of Latin words tempt you to the Dark Side...
> The zodiac sign Gemini is pronounced "jemmy-nigh" in English,
> but the Latin |geminî| (long i at the end) is pronounced
> "ghemmy-nee"!

So let me get this straight. The first i is pronounced with short 
quality and short quantity, and the second is with long quality and 
long quantity? So the two always correlate?
 
> > However, it doesn't do it consistently. 
> 
> I doubt that...  see below.

A quick example would be abdi(ca-ti(o

where i( is a short i and a- is a long a. Notice that the first a and 
the o are not marked for length. So I look at my rules for 
determining vowel length:

1) A vowel is short if
 a) it's followed by another vowel or h
 b) it's followed by nd or nt
2) A vowel is long if
 a) it's derived from a diphthong
 b) it's followed by ns, nf, or sometimes gn
 c) it's formed from a contraction
3) A diphthong is long

Neither of the two unmarked vowels fall under these rules. 
 
 
> > It also gives several rules for 
> > determining quantity, but these don't cover all possible cases 
and 
> > quite frequently disagree with the diacritics. 
> 
> You're confusing stress with length.  Those several rules
> determine on which syllable the stress falls.  Both long and
> short vowels can carry the stress, and both can be unstressed.
> Again, this doesn't influence the vowel quality.

There's a separate set of rules for determining long and short 
syllables. That part actually makes sense to me :)