Re: [engelang] Logos Initiative - engelang messages

I would rather discuss here than on yet another forum. I expect most of the few people with an interest in making an optimal or at least ergonomically adequate loglang are here.

To anyone coming new to loglanging, I'd say look at Xorban -- maybe even work on improving the documentation for it if you have the time and energy for that -- and look out for the imminent release the Toaq Dzu reference grammar. Possibly also look at Liva, as an early relatively unvitiated loglang.

As for collaborating on a loglang, I think progress can best be made by modularizing as follows.

1. Phonology. The challenge is to find a phonology with the optimal balance between maximal number of paradigmatic and syntagmatic contrasts on the one hand and on the other hand something that the great majority of potential users won't find too rebarbative.

2. Predicate inventory. Assuming all words are predicates, list predicates in approximate order of utility and for nonprimitive predicates, note what their expansion into primitives is.

Once 1--3 are settled, you could then move on creating the lexicon and inflectional morphology.

1 is worth discussing, tho reason alone doesn't lead to a consensus; you might need a consensus-generating voting system to decide it.

2 is very insufficiently studied. It would be a real boon to see more work done on this. It's not a priority for me personally, but it's something I wish others would do, so that I could enjoy the fruits of their labours.

3 is something I've given a lot of thought to for many years, and it's not clear to me that we've found a good enough solution or indeed that a good enough solution exists to be found. All known solutions look to overload working memory in various ways. The problem could do with more discussion, and with me getting round to documenting my loglang's solution; that might help us grope our way to a solution.

Working on lexicon and inflectional morphology, i.e. creating something speakable, would obviously be premature at this stage.

Anyway, this is my map of where we're at and what needs to be done. To make progress we do need people to get stuck in and do stuff, but setting up a new project with a new name and a new forum but no substance beyond that isn't the best way to make progress, imo.

Incidentally, there is a difference between (A) a version of Lojban tinkered with enough to make it a loglang and (B) an ergonomically adequate loglang. In this message I have been discussing (B). But it's (A) that would liberate diehard conservative lojbanists from tinkering. Forking Lojban will lead to (A) not to (B). I think the world needs (B).

On 17 Sep 2014 15:19, "transfire@hidden.email [engelang]" <engelang@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Hi,

I making the rounds promoting a new language project called the Logos Initiative (https://github.com/ LogosInitiative/logla), a project to create a new constructed logical language derived from Loglan and Lojban.

The intent of this initiative is to use a modern open source development model to build a new mainline logical language --in part a reconciliation between Loglan and Lojban, and via this model manage the evolution of that language. This project has not been started lightly. The world needs a strongly evolving constructed and logical language. One that continues to push the boundaries toward greater perfection in human communication.

In deference to Lojban, I believe this new initiative will be of actual benefit to Lojban, and the LLG, as it will free the LLG to focus on the promotion of Lojban as a language of everyday communication rather than worry with the heavy barrage of linguistic "tinkering".

The initiative is, obviously, in its earliest stages. At this point, it needs the aid of committed and capable persons to help by any means available to them. Communication is facilitated via Github issues (https://github.com/ LogosInitiative/logla/issues) and the Google Group base mailing list (https://groups.google.com/ forum/#!forum/logla).

I hope this initiative is received with enthusiasm by Engelangers everywhere!