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Re: [engelang] Xorban: Proposal for -k-, -b-



On Fri, Aug 31, 2012 at 3:27 PM, Mike S. <maikxlx@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> PROPOSAL
>
> The first step seems to be this:  make "b" the first (optional) argument
> separator, and define it to separate an agent from a patient.  In other
> words, if "b" appears, then the first argument is an agent and the second is
> a patient.  Some examples:
>
> spfe "E is broken" => spfabe "A breaks E"
> nrkleki "E enters I" => nrklabeki "A puts E into I"
> plnaki "A uses I" => plnabeki "A does something to E using I"

(Side issue: shouldn't "A breaks E" be based on "E breaks" rather than
on "E is broken", or else "E puts E into I" be based on "E is in I"
rather than on "E enters I"? Either always base it on the state or
always on the change of state?)

> That should be mostly clear, but there is an important difference between
> "plnaki" and the other two formulas that needs to be noted.  The first two
> predicates are defined as primitively patientive and non-agentive, so when
> -b- is applied, an agent is added to the structure in the first place, and
> the others are moved one place forward.  In "plnaki", the predicate
> structure is defined as primitively non-patientive and agentive, so when -b-
> is applied, the agent stays in the first place, a patient is added in the
> second, and the others are moved one place forward.

In a system like this we should probably strive to define predicates
as patientive as much as possible.

> The production rules would be:
>
> - simple-formula := CCC* V(‘V)* ( b V(‘V)*)* ( k V(‘V)*)*

Or equivalently:

simple-formula := CCC* ( V(‘V)* b)* V(‘V)* ( k V(‘V)*)*

which I think highlights the position of the "obligatory" argument more clearly.

One advantage of bV() over -Vb- that you didn't mention is that it can
operate on any formula rather than just add one place to a
simple-formula. So you could have:

ba na mvde
"A makes E not move."

which can't be easily done with -Vb-, you would need to use a
different stem or introduce a second predicate:

nrmvdabe
"A immovilizes E."

li fi na mvde gsnaki
"A causes the state of affairs in which E doesn't move"

Or:

ba ju trpe bjre
"A makes E scared and run"

for which you would have to repeat -ab-:

ju trpabe bjrabe

mu'o mi'e xorxes