Fwd: [ceqli] Digest Number 363

From: Rex May <rmay@hidden.email>

Date: January 29, 2007 2:19:19 PM MST

To: Larry Sulky <larrysulky@hidden.email>

Subject: Re: [ceqli] Digest Number 363

On Jan 29, 2007, at 2:03 PM, Larry Sulky wrote:

I'm getting the same brainglitch that I did from Loglan!  But

this is fascinating stuff.  But maybe you're right, and "teach"

should be the base form, and "learn" should be derived.

Truly it could be either way. One may seem more basic and the other

more derivable to us because of our English biases. Same with 'give'

and 'receive/accept'.

Backing off for a minute, I already have the preposition "ko," which I'm

thinking of doing away with and replacing with a verb, like "sila", meaning

towards or to.  So let's use it as that form.

I think a general purpose preposition that means 'with respect to' and

serves simply to mark the second object of a ditransitive could be

useful. (For less common prepositional concepts, your

'verb-as-preposition' inclination is good, I think.) You know how you

have "sta" for 'be situated in the usual fashion given the context'?

"ko" could be redefined to 'with respect to in the expected fashion',

so it could serve in all these contexts:

I give the bone with respect to the dog

I take the bone with respect to the dog

This bone is different with respect to that bone (instead of trying to

decide if the preposition should be 'from' as in AmEng, 'to' as in

BritEng, 'than' as in OtherEng...)

But trying to avoid marking the second object other than by position

might be a mistake. Ceqli has very few signposts and so could suffer

from overdensity as Loglan does. It was the dense predicate place

structure that more than anything fuzzled me about Loglan.

Hm.  Such a preposition is a good idea, so maybe I should indeed

have that -instead- of a second conversion particle.  Maybe one

conversion is the max the human brain can deal with.

So, then.

go don hon zi.   No problem.

hon bedon go zi.  Really no problem.  I think everybody can

grasp the switch of the subject and direct object.

Then,

ko zi, go don hon.   With respect to you, I give a book.

ko zi go bol Ceqlizo.  With respect to you, I speak Ceqli.

For that matter, we could have:

go, ko zi,  don hon.  

go, ko zi,  bol Ceqlizo.

Or the 'ko zi' could go after the verb, or even at the end of the sentence,

for super clarity.

go tom hon stol.

go, ko stol, tom hon.

go tom, ko stol, hon.

I think you're on to something here.   And I think a 3-place predicate

should be the max, to avoid that Loglan overstuffedness.

Rex May

rmay@hidden.email

1-970-221-5528

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