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on 3/1/04 5:27 PM, HandyDad at lsulky@hidden.email wrote: > --- In ceqli@yahoogroups.com, Rex May - Baloo <rmay@m...> wrote: >> The more I think about it, the better I like your notion of using a > kay >> construction rather than a vo construction, all things being equal. >> >> Go pa sta cwaq kay dorm. Da kun go kay ja seldom. >> >> But we have to maybe use vo when the vo-clause _modifies_ the main > verb: >> >> Go zu krayon kay dra hwar. >> >> I guess we wouldn't have to, because human insight says that we're > using the >> pencil to do the drawing, but to be unambiguous, we'd go with vo >> >> Go vo zu krayon dra hwar. I draw a picture by means of a pencil. > or >> >> Go vo dra hwar zu krayon. I use a pencil for the purpose of > drawing a >> picture. > > Would it make the "vo" construction seem more parallel to the "kay" > construction if we put "vo" in the same place that "kay" would occupy? > > "Go dra hwar vo zu krayon." > 'I draw a picture by using a pencil.' > > "Go dra hwar kay zu krayon." > 'I draw a picture and use a pencil.' > > ... > > "Go zu krayon vo dra hwar." > 'I use a pencil for the purpose of drawing a picture.' > > "Go zu krayon kay dra hwar." > 'I use a pencil and draw a picture.' > >> >> Of course, all this is colloquial ceqli anyway. Disambiguated > versions: >> >> Go pa sta ta cwaq beta kay dorm. Da kun go kay ja to seldom. > > Probably really don't need "beta" since "kay" is a compound-breaker. > Right? I'm too confused to say at the moment! > >> >> Go zu ta krayon beta kay dra ta hwar beta. etc. >> > > Side issue: More and more I count on my mental pronunciation of > multisyllabics with the down-up tone profile to keep word boundaries > clear. I just had the sudden realization that we already have a mechanism for modifying the main verb. Go zu krayon de dra hwar. or, making a compound word: Go krayonzu de dra hwar. or Go bede krayonzu de dra hwar. [Good Godfrey! Have we reinvented the instrumental case?] And I'm wondering if ceqli will tend toward Eskimo-style compound words: Go krayonzudra hwar. or just Go krayondra hwar. So what is 'vo' for? For showing that the vo clause modifies the main verb _whereever it appears_! Vo zu krayon, go dra hwar. Go vo zu krayon, dra hwar, Go dra hwar, vo zu krayon. Aside: I didn't include nouns in the adjective/verb/preposition class, as Loglan did, because it seemed a waste to have one whole category that just meant. "is a man". I wanted nouns to serve as verbs in the Mandarin/English fashion. For example, I want to be able to say: Da pa krayon ta hwar. He pencilled a picture. Ciq taq to hon ko go. Please hand the book to me. Da pa jin to gagun. He manned the gun. Zi pa gun to kanin. You gunned (shot) the rabbit. To corjin pa gi fiq to ze koin. The thief was fingering the coins. -- Rex F. May (Baloo) Daily cartoon at: http://www.cnsnews.com/cartoon/baloo.asp Buy my book at: http://www.kiva.net/~jonabook/book-GesundheitDummy.htm