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Re: [ceqli] Re: Connectives



on 2/25/04 10:31 AM, HandyDad at lsulky@hidden.email wrote:

> --- In ceqli@yahoogroups.com, Rex May - Baloo <rmay@m...>
> wrote:
>> on 2/25/04 8:44 AM, Rex May - Baloo at rmay@m... wrote:
>> 
>>> These damn connectives again.   Loglan has:
>>> 
>>> X e Y   and
>>> X a Y   and/or
>>> X o Y   if and only if
>>> X u Y   whether or not
>>> X noa Y  only if (I think)
>>> X anoi Y   if
>>> 
>>> Now, for the moment we have:
>>> 
>>> e = kay
>>> a = key
>>> o = kaw
>>> u = some longer word
>>> noa = bukay
>>> anoi = kaybu
>>> 
>>> Or, do we need a combing form for bu?
> 
> I find the derivation of some of these connectives devilish hard to
> hold on to. They just will not stick and seem highly
> counterintuitive when I encounter them...and it's hard for me to
> ignore the core morphemes that make up the compounds.

Agree.
> 
> This was A-OK in Loglan, because the point was to see if a
> language could engender new thought patterns. But I don't think
> this is the point of Ceqli. We need those concepts, and others
> besides, but a strict logician's approach to deriving them yields
> some head-scratchers that the average guy in Kuala Lumpur or
> Fort Collins or Toronto will stumble over.
> 

Agree
>> 
>> Also, Loglan has 'forethought connectives' which sort of
> appeals to me.
>> http://www.loglan.org/Loglan1/chap3.html#sec3.19
>> I think we need a mechanism for this, but I have no idea how
> frequently one
>> would need it.  Are there any Loglan people out there with an
> opinion?
> 
> Yes, we need such mechanism. I actually do talk like JCB's
> examples in that chapter. But we may be able to press my
> favourite word, "sa", into service in this role as well. I'll think more
> on it tonight during halftime and see if I can come up with
> examples.
> 
> I don't think Ceqli has to be as far-reachingly logical as Loglan or
> Lojban; just sensible, easy, and predictable.
> 

Agree again, sort of.  Here's what we need, I think.  A set of Loglanesque
connectives that can do all of the Loglan things, but, to keep both you and
me happy, a more _un_obvious derivation.

Loglan I has a set of 56 variations of the connectives, combinations of them
with fore-no's and after-no's

Let's say that the sign of the connective in ceqli is "s",  We then have,
for redundancy, different vowel/weak combos:

snan  and  (ANd)
sor  and/or (OR)
snil  if and only if (oNLY)
sweq  wether or not (WEther or not)  ["q" just to increase redundancy]

Then, what in Loglan would be a prefixed 'no' becomes a pseudo-suffix "aw",
and what would be the suffixed 'noi' becomes the pseudo-suffix "oy"

'noa,' then, is "soraw", and 'anoi' is "soroy"

So, they can be taken apart if we want to, but we don't have to.  Reaction?



-- 

Rex F. May (Baloo) 
Daily cartoon at: 
http://www.cnsnews.com/cartoon/baloo.asp
Buy my book at: 
http://www.kiva.net/~jonabook/book-GesundheitDummy.htm