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Re: [ceqli] Re: definite & indefinite articles



on 2/1/04 8:52 AM, Garrett Jones at alkaline@hidden.email wrote:

> I'll tell how I have the articles organized in Minyeva, maybe it might be
> helpful. I have five articles: te, da, ki, sao, and cai.
> 
> - te: the X previously mentioned. The word has to be introduced by one of
> the other three articles (da, ki, sao). [TA, TB]
> - da: a particular X that I have in mind. [AA, AC]
> - ki: a generic instance of X. [TJ, TK, AB, NA, NB]
> - sao: the one and only X, the X defined by Y. [TC, TD, TE, TI]
> - cai: the one with the name X. [TG, NC]
> 
> not covered by these: TF, TH
> 
> In the sentence "I'm going to marry a swede", using da vs. ki for "a" gives
> different meanings. The sentence "I'm going to marry da swede" means "There
> is a particular swede I'm going to marry", while "I'm going to marry ki
> swede" means "I'm going to find some swede someday and marry that person".
> 
> The meaning of "ki" is translated very idiomatically in English: sometimes
> with "the", other times with "a", and other times with nothing at all. For
> example:
> 
> "Today we are going to study the tiger."
> "You could get eaten by a tiger."
> "Tigers are very dangerous."

For me, ki (or tuya) fits in those three examples, but for 'a swede' I see a
different meaning.  You don't mean a typical, or representative Swede here,
do you?  You could mean, say, that you're going to marry a Swede to get
Swedish citizenship, say, and you don't need a typical one, you need -any-
one.  Here I'd use the 'any' indefinite.  Maybe I need 'ta' for that.

I agree, however, that the 'da' meaning is a useful one.   Krawn?
> 
> So far, from your discussion of articles in ceqli so far, it looks like your
> articles match up like this:
> 
> to = te
> tuya = ki
> (null)/# = da
> ?? = sao
> ti = cai
> 
> I've done some preliminary frequency studies on my adjectives by looking at
> texts from novels and counting up how many words in the texts would match up
> to each article. Here is the count I came up with, sampling from Lord of the
> Rings, Dune, and The Outsiders:
> 
> sao: 71
> ki: 31
> da: 23
> te: 18
> 
> The distribution is mostly reducable (meaning, in smaller samples it usually
> has about the same ratios).
> --

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