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Re: definite & indefinite articles



--- In ceqli@yahoogroups.com, Rex May - Baloo <rmay@m...> wrote:
> The the-word thing that bothers me the most is the proper-name 
situation.
> Now, a name would seem to behave exactly like a pronoun (correct me 
if I'm
> wrong), but a pronoun has a clear-cut form and is easily 
recognized.  The
> problem is that the number of names is infinite, and therefore we 
have to
> somehow label names.  So far we're doing it with ti or ti...beti.  
Loglan
> does it with the label 'la' and by requiring that all names end 
with a
> consonant, while no other words in the language do.   I think 
Gua/spi
> doesn't make a distinction between names and nouns.  How do other 
languages
> do it?  We need to keep open minds here.
> 
> -- 
Well, Portuguese treats them like common nouns: "Onde esta o Jose? O 
Jose esta em casa." = 'Where is the Jose? The Jose is at home.'. But 
the article isn't always there...I can't say why, I just have a 
(rudimentary) sense for it.

I think Ceqli is on solid ground here. The "tay/betay" marker pair 
works very well for foreign names (where by 'foreign' we mean 'does 
not conform to Ceqli morphotactics'). Using "ti" for native names 
tells us ahead of time that we can assume the end of the name when we 
reach the next Ceqli word boundary, so that's good too. If I want to 
identify myself very clearly, I can use my mixed Ceqli/foreign names 
like so:

"Go bi ti Krawn tay Sulki betay."

Which is the high-falutin' way to say the more everyday form:

"Go bi Krawn Sulki."

(Digression: The grammar rules say that "ti Krawn" and "tay Sulky 
betay" designate the same thing. They don't say that one name is the 
given name and the other is the family name, and I don't know if they 
need to.)

What would be the difference between names operating like pronouns 
versus operating like nouns? They couldn't transform into adjectives:

"ti Krawnse xyen" = 'Krawn's dog'

Or could they? "Go" and "zi" can.

--Krawn