[YG Conlang Archives] > [ceqli group] > messages [Date Index] [Thread Index] >


[Date Prev] [Date Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next]

Re: [txeqli] More cina (root words)



On Sat, Jun 08, 2002 at 06:59:28PM -0600, Rex May - Baloo wrote:
> > A bunch more suggested cina, in order from the Lojban frequency list.
> > 
> > Cina that I am just introducing now are marked with *.
> 
> Excellent words.  I accept all as is except for some of them as noted:

Okay. I generally accept your changes.

> > jan      djuno    know     x1 knows facts x2 about x3 by epistemology x4
> should be 'dxan'
Right.

> > sali     cliva    leave    x1 leaves from x2
> Good.  Can 'sila' be 'arrive'?
Good idea. "cliva" is an example of Lojban's curious set of words
without root-word opposites - another example is that "old" in terms of
age has to be said as "tolcitno" ("unyoung").

> > cen *    cmene    name     x1 is the name of x2 used by x3
> for this I had 'kjam', from Italian.  Or is this used in a different sense?
I didn't find a word for "name" in the Ceqli list I was looking at, so
I picked this. "kjam" is fine.

> > pen *    pensi    think    x1 thinks about/considers subject/concept x2
> I had 'dum' from russian, but we can keep that for 'opine'
Right. It's important to make the distinction.

> > pin      cmalu    small    x1 is small in property x2
> Perhaps we can make 'big' and 'small' reverse opposites.   Maybe 'smal' and
> 'slam'  Any better words possible?
"slam". Heh. No problem for me.

> > kami *   skami    computer x1 is a computer for purpose x2
> We already have 'gin' from the Hindi for 'calculate.  and it's good for it
> to be a single syllable for compounding purposes.
Great. I had forgotten about "gin", and was rather stuck trying to come
up with a good single-syllable word for "computer".

> > kore *   drani    correct  x1 is correct in property x2
> And 'kero' incorrect?
Sure.

> > gan *    gasnu    do       x1 brings about/is an agentive cause of event x2
> I take it this would be a common suffix, right?  If so, maybe a fricative
> letter would be a better initial for it, for ease of pronunciation of some
> combinations.  Perhaps 'van', from the Hindi suffix.
You're exactly right - it's the most common suffix in Lojban, since it
makes a non-agentive predicate agentive, and it is one of the few
affixes that always changes the place structure in a specified way - it
puts the agent in x1 and shifts everything else over a place. 

> > pina *   jinvi    opine    x1 thinks/opines that x2 is true about x3 on
> > grounds x4
> For this we could use dum as above.
Sure.

> > cain     simlu    seem     x1 appears to have property x2 to observer x3
> cajn better?
Right.

> > can *    casnu    discuss  x1 discusses/talks about x2
> I'm inclined to want to make compounds for some of these things.  Perhaps
> 'tembol' for this one.
Right, Lojban is a bit excessive on the words for talking.

> > fala *   jitfa    false    x1 is false by metaphysics x2
Note that I don't think an opposite pair would be good here. It's good
for "true" and "false" to sound entirely different, which wouldn't
happen with, say, "tru" and "tur". And for the sake of symbolic logic
and true-false tests they should start with different letters. :) Not
that I've picked a word for "true" yet. Funny how "false" is more common.

> > cjem *   cmima    member   x1 is a member of set/group x2
> I'm a little reluctant about the pronunciation here.  The cj.  I'd think it
> might be hard to distinguish from cem and sjem.
Really? It doesn't seem that problematic to me, but okay. The 'c' was
picked rather arbitrarily; I was going with Spanish "miembro" but had to
pick a consonant for the beginning, so I took the one from Lojban (which
in turn came from something resembling 'clien' in Russian).

> > [Lojban lacks this clarification.]
> Really?  Well, I'd like to use Esperanto-like suffixes for this sort of
> thing.  Maybe dxi from Esperanto -ig^.  Studxi, then, means sit down.
That's how you do it in Lojban also - it's just that the root word list
fails to clarify whether "sit" refers to the ongoing state or the action
that begins the state.

So this would make "dxi" the predicate for something like "become".

> > skul *   ckule    school   x1 is a school teaching x2 to community x3
> Just a thought,  but how about skul - teach, sklu -learn, and skuldom or
> skuldxaj -school
I think "skul" itself is useful in compounds. If you must do this, do it
with a word that won't be such a false cognate.

Besides, how then would you give traditional word-grouping examples
using the "pretty little girls school" before teaching compounds? :)

-- 
Rob Speer