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Re: [txeqli] More Lojban stuff



on 4/29/02 4:39 PM, Rob Speer at rob@hidden.email wrote:

> Some other pages useful for people who want how Lojban does things are
> the Reference Grammar
> (http://www.lojban.org/publications/reference_grammar.html), which is
> the definitive source for the language, and the Diagrammed Summary
> (http://www.lojban.org/files/brochures/lojex.txt) which describes the
> grammar in a particularly dense fashion.
> 
> I think that, moreso than the lessons, following the Diagrammed Summary
> and coming up with Ceqli equivalents will be useful, since it really
> builds the grammar up from the basics.
> 
> Looking at the first part, here's what Ceqli doesn't yet have:
> 
> * Established jargon.
> 
> It seems "gro" = "predicate", so that gives us:
> bridi (predicate) -> gro
> selbri (predicate relationship) -> begro
> (This is just 'gro' modified by 'be'. A fake-predicate like 'bel',
> 'bem', or 'beq' will be necessary to include this in a compound.)
> brivla (predicate word; an instance of a selbri) -> grovor
> sumti (argument) - I don't think we have a word for this yet. Running
> my Lojbanesque algorithm gives "tinje". How about it?
> 
> Incidentally, I don't like the word "gro". It's a word that will only
> be used metalinguistically, so syllable cost doesn't really count, and
> because of the fact that it will tend to appear in English text, the
> fact that it's one syllable is a bit jarring.

Actually, I meant 'gro' as in 'grovor' to be 'big', to contrast with
'pinvor.'  Sorry.  Perhaps
'prea' from PREdicAte would be appropriate.
> 
> * A gro terminator. This can be a terribly ugly word like "vjaj"
> because it's only necessary in theory, or perhaps in some obscure
> situations involving gro modifiers.

What does a terminator do here?
> 
> * A word for the unimportant version of "something". Its use is largely
> theoretical as well. Arbitrarily I suggest "zjo".
> 
> * Place structures for 'sel' (sell) and 'bel' (beautiful).
> Taking the Lojban structures without the extraneous places:
> 
> sel  x1 sells x2 to x3
> bel  x1 is beautiful to x2
> 
> * A word plus place structure for 'talk'. The algorithm suggests 'kal'
> coming mostly from Arabic 'kalam'.
> 
> kal  x1 talks to x2 about x3

How about 'bol'?   Are different words for talk, say, speak, necessary?
> 
> * A word equivalent to Lojban 'cu', placed before the begro in the
> frequent event that a grovor comes before it. Loglan 'ga'. (Side note:
> the Loglan textbook is evil. They considerately introduced predicates
> after a bunch of scientific crap, and then simply avoided using 'ga'
> for several sections. I had a heck of a time finding it.)

I see various possibilities.  Take the sentence
To kan kom.  
We can have a ga/cu word.
To kan ga kom.
We can close the 'to'
To kan beto kom.
If we decide on that, we need a better closer, one syllable, that can, say,
close any t-word.  
We can have a pinvor that means 'The preceding argument', which would behave
as the repeated 'da' I originally used, but without the ambiguity.
To kan (TPA) kom
> 
> * A paragraph separator.

Like Loglan 'nao'?  Sure thing.
> 
> * An end-of-text marker. (Again largely theoretical, but Lojban's "Alice
> in Wonderland" translation uses it for its obvious use, "The End".)

How about 'pio,' from english PerIOd.
> 
> * Agreement on what punctuation will go where.

I'm sure we can agree to no caps.  How about . for a glottal stop and , for
a pause?
> 
> With this much, Ceqli will have equivalents for everything in Part I of
> the Diagrammed Summary.

-- 
>PLEASE NOTE MY NEW E-MAIL ADDRESS: rmay@hidden.email
> Rex F. May (Baloo)
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