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on 4/29/02 4:39 PM, Rob Speer at rob@hidden.email wrote: > Some other pages useful for people who want how Lojban does things are > the Reference Grammar > (http://www.lojban.org/publications/reference_grammar.html), which is > the definitive source for the language, and the Diagrammed Summary > (http://www.lojban.org/files/brochures/lojex.txt) which describes the > grammar in a particularly dense fashion. > > I think that, moreso than the lessons, following the Diagrammed Summary > and coming up with Ceqli equivalents will be useful, since it really > builds the grammar up from the basics. > > Looking at the first part, here's what Ceqli doesn't yet have: > > * Established jargon. > > It seems "gro" = "predicate", so that gives us: > bridi (predicate) -> gro > selbri (predicate relationship) -> begro > (This is just 'gro' modified by 'be'. A fake-predicate like 'bel', > 'bem', or 'beq' will be necessary to include this in a compound.) > brivla (predicate word; an instance of a selbri) -> grovor > sumti (argument) - I don't think we have a word for this yet. Running > my Lojbanesque algorithm gives "tinje". How about it? > > Incidentally, I don't like the word "gro". It's a word that will only > be used metalinguistically, so syllable cost doesn't really count, and > because of the fact that it will tend to appear in English text, the > fact that it's one syllable is a bit jarring. Actually, I meant 'gro' as in 'grovor' to be 'big', to contrast with 'pinvor.' Sorry. Perhaps 'prea' from PREdicAte would be appropriate. > > * A gro terminator. This can be a terribly ugly word like "vjaj" > because it's only necessary in theory, or perhaps in some obscure > situations involving gro modifiers. What does a terminator do here? > > * A word for the unimportant version of "something". Its use is largely > theoretical as well. Arbitrarily I suggest "zjo". > > * Place structures for 'sel' (sell) and 'bel' (beautiful). > Taking the Lojban structures without the extraneous places: > > sel x1 sells x2 to x3 > bel x1 is beautiful to x2 > > * A word plus place structure for 'talk'. The algorithm suggests 'kal' > coming mostly from Arabic 'kalam'. > > kal x1 talks to x2 about x3 How about 'bol'? Are different words for talk, say, speak, necessary? > > * A word equivalent to Lojban 'cu', placed before the begro in the > frequent event that a grovor comes before it. Loglan 'ga'. (Side note: > the Loglan textbook is evil. They considerately introduced predicates > after a bunch of scientific crap, and then simply avoided using 'ga' > for several sections. I had a heck of a time finding it.) I see various possibilities. Take the sentence To kan kom. We can have a ga/cu word. To kan ga kom. We can close the 'to' To kan beto kom. If we decide on that, we need a better closer, one syllable, that can, say, close any t-word. We can have a pinvor that means 'The preceding argument', which would behave as the repeated 'da' I originally used, but without the ambiguity. To kan (TPA) kom > > * A paragraph separator. Like Loglan 'nao'? Sure thing. > > * An end-of-text marker. (Again largely theoretical, but Lojban's "Alice > in Wonderland" translation uses it for its obvious use, "The End".) How about 'pio,' from english PerIOd. > > * Agreement on what punctuation will go where. I'm sure we can agree to no caps. How about . for a glottal stop and , for a pause? > > With this much, Ceqli will have equivalents for everything in Part I of > the Diagrammed Summary. -- >PLEASE NOTE MY NEW E-MAIL ADDRESS: rmay@hidden.email > Rex F. May (Baloo) > Daily cartoon at: http://www.cnsnews.com/cartoon/baloo.asp > Buy my book at: http://www.kiva.net/~jonabook/gdummy.htm > Language site at: http://www.geocities.com/ceqli/Uploadexp.htm >Discuss my auxiliary language at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/txeqli/