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on 4/15/02 11:12 PM, Rob Speer at rob@hidden.email wrote: > On Mon, Apr 15, 2002 at 09:26:46PM -0600, Rex May - Baloo wrote: >> That adds up to 192. Lojban has 595. Hm. Is 192 enough? How many of >> those 595 are high-frequency? If only, say 190 of them are, the rest can >> be handled with a CV that makes the following pred into a cmavo, which could >> work like the Loglan system of deriving cmavo from preda thus: bea < BlEkA. >> Instead of thot, it would work thus. Caw look at. Zycaw For example. Zy >> being the CV that makes the following pred into a cmavo. Naturally, the >> overwhelming majority of these would be formed from single-syllable preds, >> yielding a 2-syllable cmavo. Oops. If we go with the PV(V) idea, it won't be Zy, but By or Py or something. > > This is something I was already looking at - basically, there are too > many Lojban words (modals) that are derived from predicates in arbitrary > ways, for the sole purpose of being short. Any modal can be created with > fi'o <predicate>, but nobody uses that, because the result is 4 > syllables long. > > But here, if I make fi'o a CV word, then most of the common modals would > be only two syllables, and that's 65 cmavo that don't need to be used. > (Even if none of this stuff about making the structure words regular and > basing them on Lojban goes in, this is something I'd like to see. How > does Ceqli do modals [like "because", "in order to", "using"...] > currently?) Up to now, been using 'kaw' and 'bekaw', meaning causes and is caused by. Go kom bekaw go komfo. I eat because I'm hungry. short for Ke go kom beke bekaw ke go komfo bekaw. Haven't dealt with 'in order to', For using I've been using mandarin style coverbs. Go ploy spun kom komxo. I use spoon eat food. But this latter, alas, just isn't Loglandish enough. > > But I rather doubt that with all the things Lojban cmavo encompass, it > could be brought down to 192. I don't see many other classes of words > besides the 65 modals that could be modified in that way. > >>> That said, given the chance to rearrange the cmavo I would like to make >>> too-common CV'V words into single syllables wherever possible. For >>> example, turning the ubiquitous Lojban "la'e di'u" into, say, "ke jdi". >> >> I'm with you on this, except I fear that allowing CCV(V) as a cmavo shape is >> seriously restricting the predicate space, at least for the terse, >> frequently-used preds I'd like to see, for making short compounds. > > Keep in mind that CC doesn't include CW. So this would require some > changes, like "pe" -> "per" or "pre". Generally I think this would be > worth it. -- >PLEASE NOTE MY NEW E-MAIL ADDRESS: rmay@hidden.email > Rex F. May (Baloo) > Daily cartoon at: http://www.cnsnews.com/cartoon/baloo.asp > Buy my book at: http://www.kiva.net/~jonabook/gdummy.htm > Language site at: http://www.geocities.com/ceqli/Uploadexp.htm >Discuss my auxiliary language at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/txeqli/