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on 4/15/02 9:24 AM, uaxuctum at uaxuctum@hidden.email wrote:
>> I'm kidding around with the thought of adding considerably more
> sounds to
>> Ceqli by using the Spanish alphabet. Give me your reactions on
> this:
>>
>> Ten vowels:
>>
>> a as in fAt
>> á as in fAther (accented vowels can also be represented as
> double
> vowels
>> in ASCII "aa" in this case)
>> e as in bUg
>> é as in bEd
>> i as in bIt
>> í as in bEEt
>> o as in bOUGHt
>> ó as in bOAt
>> u as in fOOt
>> ú as in fOOd
>
> And what's the accent supposed to represent there?
Nothing in particular. Just trying to match plausible new vowels to common
nonASCII letters. I figure the Spanish accented vowels are among the most
common and easily dealt with. Accent represents nothing.
> I mean, according to what I've been taught about the
> English vowels and checked with most English-speakers,
> the accent would be representing there a difference in
> length, openness and tenseness only in the case of "i"
> and "u" (i /I/ - í /i:/, u /U/ - ú /u:/), while in the
> case of "a" it would involve also an opposition of
> front/back (a /ae/ - á /A:/) and the oppositions between
> e/é and o/ó would have nothing to do with neither of the
> former: e/é would represent the opposition: schwa /@/ vs.
> short E /e/, and o/ó the opposition: long open O /O:/ vs.
> diphthong from schwa to short open U /@U/. Does that make
> any sense?
Yes, you make sense. See above.
>
>
>> When adjacent to another vowel, "i" makes the Y sound /j/, and "u"
> makes the
>> W sound /w/.
>
> Do you mean that there would be no graphic distinction
> between full vowels i and u and their glides?
Yes, and I don't like the idea either. It's confused things in Loglan and
Lojban.
>
>
>> Consonants:
>>
>> b as in Boy
>> c as in SHoe (sorry!)
>> d as in Dog
>> f as in Free
>> g as in Go
>> h as in Hat
>> j as in Joe
>> k as in King
>> p as in Pig
>> q as in CHew
>> s as in See
>> t as in Too
>> v as in Victory
>> z as in Zoo
>
>> x as in meaSure
>
> Well, at last my proposal has been considered.
>
>
>> w as in THin
>> y as in THen
>
> Aaarghhh...!!! Wouldn't it be MUCH BETTER just to
> introduce the letters eth and thorn?
Sure. But then we have the same non-ASCII problem. Question is, are we at
the point, or almost at the point, where we can use any characters we like
on computers.
>
>
>> Weaks:
>>
>> l as in Love
>> r as in Rose
>> m as in My
>> n as in No
>
>> ñ as in haNG (may also be represented as "nn")
>
> Aaarghhh...!!! again. To me, Spanish letter eñe
> represents and will always represent the PALATAL
> nasal, not the eng. Why not just introducing letter
> eng instead of letter eñe?
Same as above.
>
>
>> That brings it up to 32 sounds, 34 if you count the semivowel
> values of 'i'
>> and 'u'. And it seems to me that, interestingly, it's adequate to
>> transcribe any and all English words, tho I know English is
> officially
>> supposed to have 43 phonemes, right?
>
> Yes, but that's because e.g. you treat some of English
> diphthongs as single phonemes ("ó" for bOAt), as they
> actually are, while others as combinations of phonemes
> ("ai" for rIGHt).
>
> And, on the other hand, Ceqli (or Txeqli or Qeñli, I'm
> not sure), would thus have little problem representing
> the sounds of English. O.K. But isn't Ceqli supposed
> to be a merging of English AND CHINESE? What about all
> those sound oppositions (b/p, q/ch/, sh/r...) that
> are essential for transcribing adequately any and all
> Chinese words?
Not really supposed to be, just sort of coincidentally turning out that way.
And the Chinese phonemes are just too different from the mainstream to even
try to deal with, really.
Now questions for you: How many vowels wd you feel comfortable with, and
what wd they be?
--
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> Rex F. May (Baloo)
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