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on 4/8/02 12:27 AM, Mike Wright at darwin@hidden.email wrote: > If we go with all non-particles being verbs and requiring some > particle to convert them into nouns, it seems that there are many > categories of nouns that should be derived from verbs. Arabic does > this a lot. > > It seems that the following are the minimum number of derived forms > that need to be covered: > > verb: to cut Xnay > verbal noun: the act of cutting How will this be used? Here I get very fuzzy minded. What wd some English examples be? > instance: a cut Here we maybe have two things. An event and a result. The surgeon's cut went well. I have a cut on my arm. More clearly. Building is an art. He lives in a building. We need a suffix for act of, and one for result of. > actor: a cutter (person) here you could use To xnay or To xnaycel (xnayper) Probably per, as it combines more smoothly. > instrument: a cutter (blade or machine) Could be Xnaytul, Xnayxin, or, maybe even Xnaytayl for a blade of a machine. > > Arabic also has a way of deriving a place of action from a verbal > root. This might be useful in some cases, e.g., for the verb "to sell". > > Some of these will be more obvious with other examples: > > verb: to sell Sel > verbal noun: the act of selling > instance: a sale > actor: a salesperson Selper > instrument: n/a > place: a store, market Seljay, Seldom. > > verb: to saw > verbal noun: the act of sawing > instance: a saw cut > actor: a sawyer > instrument: a saw > place: a sawmill? > > There might also be a use for a noun of faculty: > > verb: to see > verbal noun: the act of seeing > instance: a sighting > actor: a seer (person) > instrument: a scope > place: ? > faculty: vision How about Xawfeyxen. See able-ness. > > In particular, I would avoid creating new morphemes where derived > forms would work. Given the limited morpheme structure, it's probably > best not to waste them unnecessarily. Yes and no. I just realized that we don't need Pon, put, when we have stakaw. Cause to be located. On the other hand, there are an infinite number of possible morphemes, just a limited number of one-syllable morphemes. When you get to two syllables, I think the math will show that there are plenty. I agree, tho, that we should not overproliferate morphemes. > > There are several existing Ceqli forms that already work: > > verbal noun: -ka > instance: ? > actor: -pe > instrument: -ju > place: -jay > faculty: ? Absolutely. Now, the ones in CV form will have to be changed, but the principle is the same. Pe can be per or go back to cel, Actor is the unadorned t-ed verb, i. e. Ja is go and To ja is the one who goes, goer. But of course in many cases you'd also have a combining form with pe because you want it clear that it's a person, not a thing, doing the going. And Ju is too short, wil have to be, say 'tul.' Jay is fine. Dom can frequently work for 'place of', if you are in fact referring to a building. maybe replace 'ka' with 'xen', from English '-tion.' To Xawxen. Seeing. -- >PLEASE NOTE MY NEW E-MAIL ADDRESS: rmay@hidden.email > Rex F. May (Baloo) > Daily cartoon at: http://www.cnsnews.com/cartoon/baloo.asp > Buy my book at: http://www.kiva.net/~jonabook/gdummy.htm > Language site at: http://www.geocities.com/ceqli/Uploadexp.htm >Discuss my auxiliary language at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/txeqli/