[YG Conlang Archives] > [westasianconlangs group] > messages [Date Index] [Thread Index] >


[Date Prev] [Date Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next]

Re: Brief Intro and Arab Phonology Suggestion Request!



--- In westasianconlangs@yahoogroups.com, "nathanielamentstone" 
<natcas@l...> wrote:

> This sounds fascinating. When do we start, if this is a 
collaborative 
> project? I've never explored much about Arabic dialects, but I 
would 
> love it if I could help. A "Maltese-flavored Moroccan" sounds fun. 
> How could I contribute? Is this a personal thing?

Mustarabi (the working name, in direct immitation of Mozarabic) is 
one of my artlang projects but when I really begin working on it, 
I'll accept help from anyone who wants to help. :)  Right now, I'm 
mostly researching phonology.  (I'll elaborate on phonology issues 
below)  
 
> I would suggest that q shift to k. Where are the g dialects? From 
> what I found, most of the dialects have k, so "kalb", "kitab" make 
> perfect sense to me.

I'm really torn: my first inclination is to turn Classical Arabic 
[q] to [k] as many "Arabic Lexicon Borrower Languages" would do 
(Swahili, Turkish).  As I'm aiming for as much mutual 
intelligibility as possible (see below), [k] followed by vowel 
backing seems to me a great way to insure this while removing [q].  
However, as many Arabic speakers are already familiar with 
pronunciations that move [q] to [g], I would think this would be a 
better step towards mutual intelligibility, and I can find no 
precedent within Arabic dialects for moving [q] to [k], only in non-
Arabic languages.  The closest I can come is the Modern Hebrew trend 
of moving [q] to [k].  Maltese turns [q] to [?] but spells it /q/.

Dialects which turn [q] to [g] are: some dialects of Algerian, 
Tripoli Arabic, Chadian Arabic, Andalusian Arabic, Yemeni Arabic and 
Sudanese Arabic.  I was inspired to remove [q] in the first place by 
these dialects, Maltese (whose phonology I adore) and Swahili.

Under this plan, a pair like heart/dog would look like this:

Standard Arabic: kalb (dog), qalb (heart)
Maltese: kleb, qalb (/q/ = [?])
Chadian: kalib, galib
Mustarabi: kalb, galb (or golb with vowel backing)

> I think, if it is collaborative, we should aim for an Arabic 
dialect 
> to go along with Egyptian, Lebanese, Moroccan, Maltese, etc. 
> dialects, a creole, as you put it.

I'm aiming for as much mutual intelligibility with "real" Arabic 
dialects as possible, within my aesthetic parameters and within the 
design of a creole (rather than koine): the grammar will be 
creolised such as Nubi Creole Arabic grammar, but not so much 
reduced.  I'm researching so-called "simplifications" in colloquial 
Arabic(s) that might give me a clue on what direction to go in for 
grammatical reduction.

My design goals were based on my desire to learn more about Arabic 
(specifically colloquial Arabic) as well as my desire to indulge in 
my love for creolistics.

> Are you looking for a Pan-Arabic thing, or something meant to be 
more
> "spontaneous", less uniting and more like a contemporary dialect?

Good question.  I'm aiming for something that has some mutual 
intelligibility and features of many different Arabic dialects, but 
it's not really a koine.  More, like you say, a dialect.  Perhaps 
a "semi-creole" such as Cape Dutch or Brazilian Vernacular 
Portuguese, lying somewhere in a triangulation between Standard 
Arabic, Colloquial Arabic and Creole Arabic.

> Please let me help!!!!

Wow, I'm flattered by your enthusiasm for my idea.  Let me know what 
you think of my basic idea; I know it sounds rather nebulous right 
now, as I haven't had a whole lot of time to sit down and formulate 
a formal design plan.  That's the first step I guess, and your input 
is valuable and appreciated.

Thanks also to Habarakhe Theophilus and David for their earlier 
replies, I appreciate it very much!

Cheers,
Eamon