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It helps greatly! I now have two options. The first is lirundricu derived from the Latin with a diminuative suffix and transfer of the l from the definite article. The second would be suzica which would properly be derived from Semitic sus with the same diminuative, but connected by popular etymolgy with St. Susanna. Adam On 2/15/12, Robert E. Graham <robertg@hidden.email> wrote: > Hi Adam! You may have already seen the etymology for this, but Italian > rondone and it's more obvious kin are apparently cognate to French > hirondelle, likewise Portuguese andorinhão. andorinhão is formed > through suffixation of -ão from andorinha. French hirondelle is borrowed > from Old Prov. irondela, diminutive of irunda. The original French > which the Prov. form supplanted was arondelle < aronde. The Spanish > cognates appear to be golondrina and andorina (the latter inlfluenced by > the Portuguese form; see the Royal Spanish Academy dictionary). > > The ultimate Latin origin appears to be hirundo (swallo, martin, small > bird). > > The Romanian appears to be drepnea < an assumed Latin *drepanella < > drepanis. > > The Hebrew appears to be sus (swallow or swift); the qere tradition and > the Modern Hebrew is sis. The LXX translates this chelidon (swallow) > and the Vulgate translates as pullus hirundinis. > > Hope this helps a little! > Eamon > On 2/16/2012 8:08 AM, Adam Walker wrote: >> Sorry for cross posting, but believe there are enough people no on (or at >> least not active on) bot Coanlang and the Ramolang iteration that it >> warrants the crossover. >> >> I decided, today, that I need a word for the swift in Carrajina, since it >> is a native species. So I thought I'd go my usual route -- look the word >> up in a bunch of Romance languages (plus Greek, Arabic and Ancient >> Hebrew), >> see how they cluster and then choose one of the options for which I could >> track down the etymology. But the names for this bird are all over the >> chart! >> >> Catalan -- falciot negre >> Greek -- maurotachtara >> Spanish -- vencejo común >> French -- martinet noir >> Galician -- cirrio común >> Italian -- rondone >> Latin -- apus >> Piedmontese -- rondon >> Portuguese -- andorinhão-preto >> Sardinian -- rundinone >> Sicilian -- rinninuni >> >> The only cluster there is the one comprising Italian, Piedmontese, >> Sardinian and Sicilian, but I lack good etymological sources for those >> languages, so I'm more or less stuck. >> >> The biggest surprise to me, was that the four Iberian languages (normally >> so similar in vocab choices) ALL strike out in vastly different >> directions. >> >> I'm wondering if I might not be better off inventing a name that strikes >> out in YET ANOTHER direction, since there seems to be almost no agreement >> on what to call this bird. But before I make up my mind, I was wondering >> if anyone knows what to call this bird in Romanian, Asturian, Provencal, >> Walloon, Arabic, Maltese, Venitian, Langobard, Ladin or Ancient >> Hebrew/Punic-Phonecian. >> >> Also, does anyone have an explination or even a reasonable guess as to why >> the names of this bird are so random? >> >> Adam >> >