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--- In romconlang@yahoogroups.com, Benct Philip Jonsson <bpj@...> wrote: Hey there, i was wondering what is Rhodrese i like the look of this language and was wondering if it was completed or is it being developed? > > Edgard escreust: > > >>> This is so like my conlang Rhodrese were > >>> > >>> Latin > >>> > >>> R, -D-, -RR > _r_ /4/ > >>> > >>> RR, DR, D'R N'R > _rr_ /R/ > >>> > >>> L-, L / V__V, -LL' > _l_ /l/ > >>> > >>> L / __(C, #) > _o_ /w/, /U/ > >>> > >>> LJ, GL, G'L, -C'L- > _gl_ /L/ > >>> > >>> LL, L'N, L'R, T'L, D'L > _ll_ /r`_l/ (aka /l\`/ aka /4\`/) > >>> > >>> Thus: > >>> > >>> ILLO PEDE > _el pier_ /pjE4/ pl. _il pir_ > > > > > > pedem > pede > pere > pe:r > pier > > pedem > pEdem > pE:de > peEde > piEde > piEre > piEr > > > pede:s > pere:s > pries? : ) > > pede:s >>>> piEdes > piEdis >> piEri > piiri > pi:r > pir > > I.e. Rhodrese has Germanic-style umlaut! :-) > Actually the fact that all three VLâ?`declensions > ended up with a plural in -i was probably more > likely due to analogy than to actual sound change > of -e:s > -i and -ae > -i, not to mention '-as > -i' > and '-os > -i'. The second person present singular > of verbs is also formed with i-umlaut, which can be > regular only in the fourth conjugation, and possibly > in the second conjugation, tho most 2nd conj. verbs > went over to the fourth. > > > > > > >>> ILLO PATRE > _el piar_ (Old Rh. _paerr_) pl. > _il pier_! > >>> LAUDARE > _lauriar_ /l@w4'ja4 > >>> > > > > reminds me of 'laurear' (portuguese) from laurus, lauru:s. > > No doubt from the adjective LAEREUS. > That would become _leuriar_ in Rh.: > > laureare >> laurja:re >> leyra:re > l2yra:re >> l2yr&:r > > l2yr&@r >> ly:re@r >> lyrjar > > The O.Rh. spelling would have been _leuraer_, reflecting > either the [l2yr&:r] or the [l2yr&@r] stage. > > In LAUDARE there was no VL /j/ or /i/ and so no umlaut; > the a: > &: >>>>> ja change happened only after umlaut had > ceased to operate. > > > > >>> > >>> ROTUNDU > _rodond_ /RU'dOnt/ > > > > > > how is the 'mundus' reflex? mund or mond? > > _mon_, pl. _men_ (O.Rh. _mond, moend_ > > >>> > >>> PETRA > _pierre_ /'pjERI/ > >>> QUADRAGINTA > _quarrante_ > > > > > > your conlang seems to preserve diphthongs well, as > lauriar, I guess auru > > > aur?; I can only think of romance languages that changed > it to [o] or [ou]. > > Aur is beautiful, btw... So I thought that if the second > declension plural > > was -ai in proto-Rhodrese ; ), it would go to -e, mixing > singular and > > plural... but you got the stems from the accusative, > so... forget it ; ) > > Actually Rh. preserved only AU, which indeed did > become [Ou] in O.Rh. O.Rh. acquired further > diphthongs, mainly since after the Latin vowel > length distinction was replaced by quality > distinctions as described at > > <http://wiki.frath.net/User:Melroch/Vulgar_Latin> > > and where Rhodrese follows the 'Corsican' pattern > (which in our universe is of doubtful validity) > there arose new long vowels through lengthening of > stressed vowels in open syllables, of which in > Rhodrese all except the high /i:/ and /u:/ (and > /y:/) were later (after i-umlaut) diphthongized: > > Latin Rh. VL Length Umlaut Diphth Old Rh. Mod Rh. > ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ---------- ----------- > i: i i: i: -- _i_ _i_ > e: e e: e:/i: ei/i: _ei, i_ _ai, i_ > i(/e( E E: E:/i: iE/i: _ie, i_ _ie, i_ > a:/a( a &: &:/E: &@/iE _ea, ie_ _ia,ie_ > u(/o( O O: O:/9: uO/y2 _uo, ue_ _uo, ue_ /2/ > o: o o: o:/2: ou/2y _ou, eu_ _au, eu_ /y/ > u u u: u:/y: -- _u, ui_ _u, eu_ /y/ > > There were also some further diphthongs arising > from consonantal combinations like RUPTUM > ROPTU > > rOutU > _rout_, HABITUM > AB'TU > autu > Out > _out_, MAGIS > mEi _mei_, DIGITUM, DEJ'TU > dEid > > _deid/deit_. These [ou]/[Ou] and [ei]/[Ei] pairs > merged quite early -- possibly before umlaut. Add > to this the diphthongs that arose from > L-vocalization. AL, OL and U(L merged with AU but > are still spelled differently _ao_, I:L was > spelled _io_ in Middle Rh. but merged with /y/ and > is spelled _eu_ in Mod.Rh. EL and I(L finally are > still distinct /Ew/ and spelled _eo_. This is the > main reason _au_ and _ao_ are still spelled > differently: the umlaut of _au_ is _eu_ /y/ but > the umlaut of _ao_ is _eo_ /Ew/. > > >>> PONERE HABET > _porrat_ /pU'Rat/ > > > > > > 'he must put'? > > 's/he will put' That is the Romance synthetic > future as CANTARE HABET > CANTARE HAT > _cantar há_ > > _cantará_ (to exemplify with Portuguese). > > > > > > > >>> > >>> ILLU BELLU > _el bel_ > >>> ILLA STELLA > _l'estelle_ > >>> ILLO MALO > _el mao_ > >>> ILLA MALA > _la male_ > > > > > > 'mae' is that illegal? > > Unlike Portuguese Rhodrese doesn't lose > intervocalic L and N, but in some dialects > L vocalizalization did go further so there > you will find _maoe_ /'mawI/ and _estele_ > /I'stElI/ instead of the standard forms > /'malI/ and /I'stEr`I/ (in the Rhodrese > dialects' heartland south of Lojú). > > >>> > >>> ILLO STAB'LU > _ell estabo_ > >>> ILLI OC'LI > _igl egl_ > > > > > > hard to say! the singular is... el ogl... de la aquile? > > Yes _el ogl_, the word is OCULUS 'eye'. > > >>> > >>> ILLO FILIOLU > _el figláo_ pl. _il figléo_ > >>> ILLA FIL[j]INA > _la figline_ pl. _il figlÃ_ > >>> ILLO FILIO > _el fegl_ pl. _il figl_ > "child(ren)" > >>> (Old Rh. _el figl, il figl_) > >>> > >>> > > Is there an excerpt with the vulgar latin to compare? I > like it. > > I should really make one. I have the Vulgate Xmas gospel > lying around, which would be a suitable text, or > the Tower of Babel, if I can find the Vulgate > version (which I could). > > /BP > > The Stuttgart Vulgate text from > > <http://www.latinvulgate.com/verse.aspx?t=0&b=1&c=11> > > is below. I'll try to find time to work on a > translation into Rhodrese. > > 11.1 erat autem terra labii unius et sermonum eorundem > > 11.1 And the earth was of one tongue, and of the same speech. > > 11.2 cumque proficiscerentur de oriente invenerunt campum in > terra Sennaar et habitaverunt in eo > > 11.2 And when they removed from the east, they found a plain > in the land of Sennaar, and dwelt in it. > > 11.3 dixitque alter ad proximum suum venite faciamus lateres > et coquamus eos igni habueruntque lateres pro saxis et > bitumen pro cemento > > 11.3 And each one said to his neighbour: Come let us make > brick, and bake them with fire. And they had brick instead > of stones, and slime instead of mortar: > > 11.4 et dixerunt venite faciamus nobis civitatem et turrem > cuius culmen pertingat ad caelum et celebremus nomen nostrum > antequam dividamur in universas terras > > 11.4 And they said: Come, let us make a city and a tower, > the top whereof may reach to heaven; and let us make our > name famous before we be scattered abroad into all lands. > > 11.5 descendit autem Dominus ut videret civitatem et turrem > quam aedificabant filii Adam > > 11.5 And the Lord came down to see the city and the tower, > which the children of Adam were building. > > 11.6 et dixit ecce unus est populus et unum labium omnibus > coeperuntque hoc facere nec desistent a cogitationibus suis > donec eas opere conpleant > > 11.6 And he said: Behold, it is one people, and all have one > tongue: and they have begun to do this, neither will they > leave off from their designs, till they accomplish them in deed. > > 11.7 venite igitur descendamus et confundamus ibi linguam > eorum ut non audiat unusquisque vocem proximi sui > > 11.7 Come ye, therefore, let us go down, and there confound > their tongue, that they may not understand one another's speech. > > 11.8 atque ita divisit eos Dominus ex illo loco in universas > terras et cessaverunt aedificare civitatem > > 11.8 And so the Lord scattered them from that place into all > lands, and they ceased to build the city. > > 11.9 et idcirco vocatum est nomen eius Babel quia ibi > confusum est labium universae terrae et inde dispersit eos > Dominus super faciem cunctarum regionum > > 11.9 And therefore the name thereof was called Babel, > because there the language of the whole earth was > confounded: and from thence the Lord scattered them abroad > upon the face of all countries. >