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--- Jan van Steenbergen <ijzeren_jan@hidden.email> wrote: > --- Benct Philip Jonsson skrzypszy: > > > Then there is the question of my own > Perso-Romance > > Baazramani -- if it is to be a language of IB > it will > > probably be a subgroup of its own too. > > I vote yes. I would tend to opt for "Levantine" on geographical grounds, and perhaps some areal influence. While I'm assuming that tags like "Western", "Eastern" etc are geographically based for the most part, I think it's also pretty much a given that languages within those groupings are somewhat closely related on depper levels as well. Or am I wrong on that? > > So here is a revised version of IB Romance > languages: > > > > > > I. Western Romance > > A. Britanno-Romance > > B. Gallo-Romance > > D. Northern Italian > > E. Ibero-Romance > > No C? ;) > > Actually, I think Jovian could very well serve > as category C on its > own. Agreed, it is definitely a Western Romance > language, although it > is different enough from all the others. Now > that I think of it, it > could probably be listed as an isolate as well. But is it really Romance at all? I had understood it to be derived from Classical Latin, rather than the mother of all actual Romance languages, Vulgar Latin. > > II. Lessinu > > I'm still not sure about Lessinu's > qualification as an isolate. See > my other message. My assumption is that it > could very well share a > common ancestor with Jelbazech, and that it has > just change so > significantly because of its isolated position > in German-speaking > territory. But, like I said, it's hard to say > anything without Joe's input. An interesting theory! > > IV. South-Eastern Romance > > A. Central and southern Italian > > B. Jelbazech > > C. Dalmatian > > D. Rumanian > > V. North-Eastern Romance > > A. Wenedyk > > B. Slezan > > C. Slevan > > I still get the feeling that Jelbazech's > classification as > South-Eastern Romance is somewhat strange. From > Dan's description, > Jelbazech and the Slavo-Romance language share > pretty much, > historically. Perhaps it should be classed with the "North-Eastern" languages? > Also, I very much doubt in how far > Romanian/Dalmatian/Jelbazech? > would really be known as "South-Eastern" if > Judajca and Baazramani are also around. Perhaps it's because they're not European Romance languages, so ought to be outside the European scheme? > > VI. Levantine > > A. Judajca > > B. Gallilean > > VII. Baazramani > > Too many categories would make the scheme moot > IMO. How about adding > Judajca (or rather, Levantine) to the same > category that includes Romanian? Well, if Judajca becomes "South-Eastern", then I could hardly agree that Romanian should continue as SE as well! - on purely geographical grounds. The other problem is how closely related are Romanian and Judajca? I gather that J has rather a few features inherited/brought into the language by the native Semitic speakers and B might as well. Perhaps the conlangs need to be looked at in order to determine their lineages and closest real Romance and constructed Romance relatives in order to make a sensible scheme that is truly meaningfull. For example: Jervaine is descended from Classical Latin, but I can hardly beleive that it has escaped "contamination" from Romance sources or has remained essentially CL. As such, it's lineage would be Archaic Latin > Classical Latin > Old Jervaine and its closest living relative would be Ecclesiastical Latin. If it has suffered considerable change, we might add what language(s) has influenced it most. I think it ought to be placed off to the side of the main scheme. Kerno's lineage is: Archaic Latin > Vulgar Latin > Brittano-Romance > Western British Romance > Old Kerno; its closest relatives are Cumbreg, Brithenig and Northern French languages. Most influences come from Brithenig, Francien and English. Brithenig's lineage is: Archaic Latin > Vulgar Latin > Brittano-Romance > Central British Romance > Old Brithenig; it's closest relatives are Paesan and Cumbreg. Most influences are from French, English. Francien is: Archaic Latin > Vulgar Latin > Gallo-Romance > Old Francien; its closest relatives are Piccard, Normand and Kerno. Influences come from Gaul�sc and Frankish (early on). In this way, we can see where the conlangs ought to fit into the scheme. For IB, perhaps I can put up a page at the Wiki where this can be done? Everyone can add their own regions and comment on other known languages. Padraic. ===== N' pozont pass feaire pissoir 'ne ncawdr�n sanq' baccionte y vos e-z-y chuni�n. [They can't do anything without a song and a dance! -- Kemrese maxim] -- Ill Bethisad -- <http://www.geocities.com/elemtilas/ill_bethisad> Come visit The World! -- <http://www.geocities.com/hawessos/> .