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--- In ceqli@yahoogroups.com, Rex May - Baloo <rmay@m...> wrote:
> on 2/17/04 9:33 PM, HandyDad at lsulky@r... wrote:
>
> > --- In ceqli@yahoogroups.com, "HandyDad" <lsulky@r...> wrote:
> >> --- In ceqli@yahoogroups.com, Rex May - Baloo <rmay@m...> wrote:
> >>> faq isn't the ind ob marker as such, it just means direction.
> > Tho
> >> it'll
> >>> probably end up being -one- such marker.
> >>>
> >>> Go tir to hon (faq) zi.
> >>>
> >>> Go ziq ben zi. I sing to you.
> >>>
> >>> In the first case, faq can be omitted because it's
understandable
> >> without
> >>> it.
> >>>
> >>
> >> "Go ziq ben zi" opens up the next can of verbs: how to handle
> >> auxiliary verbs.
> >>
--SNIP--
> So if we use that old particle vo:
>
> Go vo dorm sur cwaq. or
> Go sur cwag vo dorm.
> I'm on the bed, sleeping.
>
> Go vo sur cwag dorm. or
> Go dorm vo sur cwaq.
> I'm sleeping on the bed.
>
> (a Mandarin speaker, I understand, wouldn't see much difference in
these)
>
> I think the vo-clause coming last would tend to be the default
ceqli word
> order.
I really like having verbs where we would use prepositions in
English. Here are some things I think I understand, plus some
questions.
"dan" is a verb, meaning 'to be inside of'. It is a two-place verb:
the thing that is inside, and the thing whose inside is where the
other thing is being. (That would sound better at a cocktail party
after several drinks.)
"go dan dom."
'I be-in house.'
If I sing inside the house, I could express it this way:
"go dan dom ziq."
'I be-in house sing.'
Or:
"go ziq vo dan dom."
'I sing be-in house.'
The "vo" indicates that "dan dom" is not the object of "ziq", but is
a linked verb phrase? Or that it functions as a prepositional phrase,
coordinated with the verb "ziq"?
Do we need "vo"? Could this same idea be expressed this way?
"go ziq kay dan dom."
'I sing and be-in house.'
Or:
"go dan dom kay ziq."
'I be-in house and sing.'
This way neither form would be preferred. I would just be making two
linked claims about the world: where I am being, and what I am doing.
And I might sing elsewhere; and I might do other things while I'm in
the house. All this sentence says is that, in some time free sense,
I'm in the house and I'm singing: habitually, right now,
yesterday.... It depends on context, which is fine.
We need some words for establishing other relationships between
linked verbs. 'I be-in house therefore sing,' or 'I sing therefore be-
in house,' or 'I be-in house because sing,' or 'I sing because be-in
house.'
Let's go back to "go ziq ben zi", 'I sing benefit you' ('I sing to
you'). To me, 'sing' is a three-place verb, and 'you' is the indirect
object. ('Song' is the implied direct object.) So I would be inclined
to translate 'I sing to you' as "go ziq [I.O. marker] zi",
where "[I.O. marker]" is the indirect object marker. I can't think of
a preposition aside from 'to' that would be a convenient indirect
object marker. All other prepositions really seem like verbs to me
now.
If I wanted to say 'I sing for your benefit', then I would want to
link two verbs, 'to sing' and 'to benefit', but with a different
conjunction than just 'and':
"go ziq kay ben zi."
just seems to say that I sing and I benefit you; the two are not
necessarily related. Let's try:
"go ziq [for-purpose-of] ben zi."
'I sing for-purpose-of benefit you.'
It's reminiscent of an Appalachian and American midwestern construct:
'I sing for to benefit you.'
'I work for to earn money.'
Just some thoughts. Been a long hard week; I'll think more clearly
tomorrow.
--Krawn