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Re: [txeqli] Re: C



 
--- In txeqli@y..., Rex May - Baloo <rmay@m...> wrote:
> I really hate, as do some of you, to have c out there
> not meaning anything. So that leaves these
> possibilities:
>
> C = /T/ as in Eng 'thin.' 
> C = A general click. 
> C = sound in German baCH. 
> C = 'ts'.
Ray Bergmann suggests C = [SH] as in: cain [shain] (appearance, aspect); cam [sham] (north); cama [shama] (candle); camo [shamo] (desert); camveigater [shamveigater] (North America); can [shan] (mountain); cani [shani] (adventure); cau [shau] (see, look); ci [shi] (female); cin [shin] (machine); cir [shir] (milk); co [sho] ("stuff" suffix denoting results); cpil [shpil] (act); cpo [shpo] (hat); crain [shrain] (shrine); cum [shum] (noise); cur [shur] (sure, certain); cwa [shwa] (decide, choose); hobecau (apear or come in sight); bucau (blind); hawacin (airplane); filci (daughter); pamfraci (aunt);picpo (cap).
 
* TC = [TSH] as in:
tca (there by you); tcain (chinese); tcal (move); tcala (whisper); tcam (room); tcama (pardon, forgive); tcamra (leather); tcape (that person); tcara (to feed, to graze); tcaran (base, foot); tcari (stick); tcarm (charm); tcau (goodbye); tce (six); tcela (disciple, follower); tcem (in comparison); tcen (middle); tcene (chin); tcerul (cigarette); tceyo (size); tci (here); tcil (seven); tcili (chilli); tcipe (this person); tciyo (gasolene); tcora (wide); tcovo (that just mentioned); tcu (there away from us); tcun (there away from us); tcupe (that person over there); tcur (to rob).
 
Now we have gotten rid of "x" we should also get rid of "q" [ng] by making it a variation of [n] as Japanese does, thus we would have:
tcin (please, invite); tcan (long); camdungater [shamdungater] (Europe); cambin (Arctic); dun (east); enlastan (England); potcankau (abbreviate); jansaman (armaments); pamfraci (aunt); jon (bell); pin (bottle) or use Japanese "bin" (bottle); banla (bungalow); brucau (catch sight of); van (cheek); can (chief); penu (crowd); karanan (essay); tan (hand); suldungater (Africa); bingater (Antarctica); AS "FIN" IS ALREADY "FINISH", "FINGER" WILL HAVE TO CHANGE TO "tandit" AND "TOE" WILL CHANGE TO "paudit" - "dit" being "a digit of the hand or foot"; tsanyin (a fly);  INSTEAD OF SWAHILI "tcunwa" I SUGGEST USING WHATEVER THE COMPOUND "GOLD-FRUIT" WOULD TURN OUT IN TCENLI(BOL) - THIS IS AN OPTION IN HEBBREW INSTEAD OF THE ALTERNATIVE HEBREW WORD "tapuz" - ACTUALLY THE NAME OF THIS LANGUAGE NEEDS CHANGING ANYWAY, IS TCENLI REALLY A "COMPOUND" OF "TCAIN" (CHINESE) AND "HENLA" (ENGLISH)?  IF YOU HAD "jik" FOR "LOGIC" THEN A LOGICAL NAME WOULD BE "jikbol"!
 
Now that "q" is no longer needed for [ng] which has ceased to be a separate phoneme from [n], it could be used instead of [tc]: qin (please, invite); qan (long); 
qa (there by you); qain (chinese); qal (move); qala (whisper); qam (room); qama (pardon, forgive); qamra (leather); qape (that person); qara (to feed, to graze); qaran (base, foot); qari (stick); qarm (charm); qau (goodbye); qe (six); qela (disciple, follower); qem (in comparison); qen (middle); qene (chin); qerul (cigarette); qeyo (size); qi (here); qil (seven); qili (chilli); qipe (this person); qiyo (gasolene); qora (wide); qovo (that just mentioned); qu (there away from us); qun (there away from us); qupe (that person over there); qur (to rob).
 
This idea of changing the value of "q" would still be woth exploring even if you were going to leave "x" as [sh]: xain [shain] (appearance, aspect); xam [sham] (north); xama [shama] (candle); xamo [shamo] (desert); xamveigater [shamveigater] (North America); xan [shan] (mountain); xani [shani] (adventure); xau [shau] (see, look); xi [shi] (female); xin [shin] (machine); xir [shir] (milk); xo [sho] ("stuff" suffix denoting results); xpil [shpil] (act); xpo [shpo] (hat); xrain [shrain] (shrine); xum [shum] (noise); xur [shur] (sure, certain); xwa [shwa] (decide, choose); hobexau (apear or come in sight); buxau (blind); hawaxin (airplane); filxi (daughter); pamfraxi (aunt);pixpo (cap). 
 
Basically if we were going to use the "q" for [tsh] then we would only need to decide which of the letters "x" and "c" would be [sh] and which would be the ONLY letter in the alphabet not being used.  If "c" is not [sh] or [tsh] then the logical use of "c" would be as [ts] because that is its sound in both Esperanto and in Chinese.  But [ts] is too close in sound to [tsh] and to [s] - in Yahoo Group Nova which explores Reform versions of Esperanto, many of the members have suggested reducing [ts] to [s] especially in words like "scienco" = "sienso"!   On the other hand "x" is available as a phoneme including both [ks] (when a voiceless sound follows) or [kz] (when a voiced sound follows); the auxiliary language Unish from one of the universities in Korea uses it like that, and also some of the Reform-Esperantists use it: experto = eksperto, exameno = ekzameno (but in this case the [kz] sound are changed to [ks] so that the letter always has the same sound); and of course the quite well-known Henlabol (English) uses it that way.
 
So here is my suggested alphabet:
a, b, c = [sh], d, e, f, g, h, i, j, k, l, m, n, o, p, q = [tsh] (or [kw] if "tc" is preferred), r, s, t u, v, w, x = [ks] (allowing optionally also [kz] when a voiced sound follows), y, z. 
 
Some of the Nov-esperantists prefer to use "c" as [k] and to use "k" as [X] like in German "Bach".  In that case the alphabet would be:
a, b, c = [k], d, e, f, g, h, i, j, k = [X], l, m, n, o, p, q = [tsh] (or [kw] if "tx" is preferred), r, s, t u, v, w, x = [sh], y, z.
 
By the way, I never did find out why "c" = [tsh] has apparently been unanimously rejected!!??
 
Ray Bergmann,
Brisbane, Australia. 
  
       
     
        
     
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