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Re: Mandarin



--- In txeqli@y..., "kevinbsmith" <yahoogroups@q...> wrote:
> --- In txeqli@y..., Rex May - Baloo <rmay@m...> wrote:
> > A quick question for the group.  Should Txeqli mimic Mandarin 
thus:
> > 
> > Go dorm.  I sleep.
> > Go dorm zi.  I put you to sleep.
> > 
> > Go djoy.  I'm happy.
> > Go djoy zi.  I make you happy.
> > 
> > That is, convert an intransitive to a transitive simply by 
> > adding an object?
> 
> One concern I have is sentences like this:
> 
> Kven djoy felin...
> 
> At this point, we don't know if it is "Kevin [make] happy [the] 
cat..." or "Kven [who is] a happy cat...". Quite different meanings. 
Glosa, which has a similar structure, has similar problems. It has 
optional markers to start the verb phrase, but some people don't like 
to use them. 
> 
> Generally, you *can* figure out, by context, where the verb starts, 
but only after you've looked ahead in the sentence. I find that 
frustrating, and would like to be able to figure out the meaning by 
reading the sentence once, in order.
> 
> So, to make a short story long, I do like the idea of verbing 
adjectives like this, but also fear a lack of markers that indicate 
breaks between S, V, and O parts of a sentence.

Maybe the idea of my own project may help to solve
this problem. In it, there are different morphemes for
marking transitive, intransitive and causative actions,
so the difference between them is always clear. A bit
more words to learn at first, but a big problem solved
once and for all. The theme and the predicate are also
clearly separated by means of a predicator.

Thus, e.g. "I move" would be (well, I haven't yet any
word for "move" chosen yet, so for the example I'll
borrow it from English: "muv"; and as I also haven't
yet the word for the causative morpheme, I'll invent
it for the example too):
- "Go da qi muv" means "I move (myself)", "I experience
the verbal notion of moving"
- "Go da du muv" means "I move (something)", "I inflict
actively the verbal notion of moving upon something"
- "Go da ge muv" means "I cause a movement", "I'm an
active motivation of an action of moving"
Note that "da" is the predicator, which separates the
theme "go" from the rheme "qi/du/ge muv". If it happened
that no predicator appeared in the sentence, as in
"Go qi muv", we wouldn't have made a statement, but just
a "naming" ("I that move myself"), You can combine both
and say, e.g. "Go qi muv da du muv", which would mean
"I that move myself move something else".

More examples:

- "Go da qi nyz" - I sleep (I experience a sleep)
- "Go da du nyz" - I put to sleep (I "inflict" a sleep)
- "Go da ge nyz" - I cause a sleep

- "Go da qi hij" - I am happy (I experience happiness)
- "Go da du hij" - I make happy (I "inflict" happiness)
- "Go da ge hij" - I cause happiness

Hope it may help.

Best regards,
Javier