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Re: Ser and estar



A similar distinction between different kinds of knowledge is found 
in several European languages also, and I'm sure all over the world.

In German:

koennen:  "to know by personal acquaintance"
wissen:   "to know by learning or authority"

Given that one *can* break it down as I just did in English, no 
doubt one can in the interlingua also.  But this seems a wee bit 
English-parochial.  Even English used to make this distinction with 
different words.

As for ser and estar, I don't think it will come up too often, 
simply because the interlingua doesn't use "to be" very much.  You 
would say, "I located-at work", "I emotional-state-verb well", "I 
Australian-state", "I work-as a data analyst", and so on.

I imagine sentences like the headline you mention will require 
special handling in the programs that parse Spanish for translation 
to the interlingua.  It'll have to be translated across much like 
you did in the English version.

For what it's worth, though, Lexical Semantics does come up with an 
equivalent for "ser", though I forget what it is at the moment.  
(Search on "copula" in the monograph.)  I can't think of an 
equivalent for "estar" off the top of my head.  You'd need some sort 
of state-verb meaning, "having the quality of".  There may be one 
already, I just don't recall it offhand.

--- In Ladekwa@yahoogroups.com, Geoff Hacker <geoff.hacker@g...> 
wrote:
>
> Hello,
> 
> Ladekwa--and, I presume, its successor Latejami--has shown itself 
to be
> proficient at making all the lexical distinctions that English-
speakers are
> accustomed to making. It also makes many grammatical distinctions 
that
> non-English speakers are accustomed to making, such as degrees of
> politeness, topicalisation or voice changes. But what about some 
important
> non-English lexical distinctions? I am thinking here of the Spanish
> distinction between ser and estar, both of which would translate 
into
> English as "to be", yet which make what to the Spanish-speakers is 
an
> important distinction between essence and accident. You "estar" at 
work
> today, or you "estar" well at the moment, but you "ser" an 
Australian or you
> "ser" a data analyst. In most cases, this distinction could 
probably be
> ignored in the interlingua, because "ser" and "estar" have 
customary usages
> that can be identified from context, i.e. translate with "ser" 
when talking
> about nationality or occupation but "estar" when talking about 
location,
> condition or emotion--but the distinction could not be ignored in 
every
> case. An editorial in La Nacion once had the headline "Somos o 
estamos
> indeciso?", or "Are we indecisive, or merely undecided?" How would 
the
> interlingua make this kind of distinction when it had to be made?
> 
> Geoff
>