Re: [Ladekwa] Ladekwa and ergativity - Latejami messages

Hi Geoff,

It's an interesting issue. I don't know anything about Basque and other "ergative languages". As far as I have read in the english Wikipedia about "ergativity", an ergative transitive verb is to me quite the same as a middlevoiced transitive verb. The ergative case is the deleted actor in Ladekwa.

John[agent] broke the window[patient].

The window[patient] broke[middle-voice].

*John[ergative=deleted agent] the window[absolutive=patient] broke[middle-voice=ergative verb].

The third construction is not possible in English (and Ladekwa), but in ergative languages.

So, the ergative case is a restored agent case. The absolutive case is the patient case, but the difference between Ladekwa and an ergative language is that Ladekwa doesn't allow to restore an agent case once deleted due to middle-voicing, whereas ergative languages do so and call it "ergative case".

Regards,

Stephan

----- Original Message -----

From: Geoff Hacker

To: Ladekwa@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, November 11, 2005 10:44 AM

Subject: [Ladekwa] Ladekwa and ergativity

Hi everyone,

What is the difference between the agent case and the ergative case in ergative languages--or for that matter, the difference between the patient case and the absolutive case in same? There seems to me at least to be considerable overlap between these two conceptualisations of cases. All verbs have a patient, whether express or implied, just like all verbs in an ergative language have an absolutive case as a minimum, but some verbs will also have an ergative case, just like some verbs will have an agent case in Ladekwa. And the ergative case is the subject of transitive verbs just like the agent case is in Ladekwa. I'm no expert, but the only thing to distinguish Ladekwa from a straightforwardly ergative language to me is its use of the focus case as well.

Regards

Geoff